There is a link above that talks a little about Florida’s liability laws in cases like this. Basically, they have to know its dangerous. 35 years and no alligator attacks in lakes that were swum in for the first 20 (and had a damn waterpark on them for a good 15) - I think that Disney will be able to argue persuasively that under Florida law, they don’t have liability.
But I still think they’ll settle.
I looked at the link; it wasn’t very conclusive. The writer basically ends it by saying “it depends”.
As I see in this thread, opinions vary widely on that exact fact: we have people here saying everything from ‘the hazard is obvious’ through ‘the hazard is foreseeable’ to ‘the hazard is remote’.
I myself have no idea about the prevalence of attacks in Florida, but the variety of views makes me less confident that Disney can prove on a balance or probabilities that they could not have known it was dangerous.
That uncertainty makes it the more likely that they will settle; but even if the case was a slam-dunk for them, I think they would settle anyway - purely for publicity and customer relations purposes.
I know that there are alligators in the Everglades. I have read enough to know that the critters also roam on golf courses. I would have never guessed in a million years that there were going to be alligators on a Disney resort that were not fully enclosed and/or part of a show.
I’m inclined to agree. Though for a variety of reasons, I doubt it will be tested in court. My guess is it will settle, quickly.
The last thing a resort owner wants is a long drawn out court case about toddler-eating alligators. They want this story to go away, quickly.
I concur that they’ll offer some form of sympathy check without admitting any liability.
However, the tricky part isn’t the range above. It’s that both of these statements:
“The hazard is obvious”
and
“The Hazard is remote”
are both true at the same time.
Again, not a quarter mile from my home there is a reported dozens of alligators inhabiting a manmade lake. Behind my ex-wife’s house she has a small drainage pond - maybe 15 feet by 80 and 10 feet deep and it has a smallish (3-4 feet) alligator in it.
Nonetheless, even with the proximity and the lake activities - boating, fishing and such…I’ve been on my kayak on the lake - there’s never been an attack. The worst I’ve seen happening is someone running one over like a speedbump.
I still wouldn’t allow a small animal or child near the edge, though. It’s never happened but it could. Alligators are wild and unpredictable.
Ergo, the hazard is both obvious and remote.
If this is true and provable, it argues for Disney being liable.
The hazard may be “obvious” to residents, and therefore to the operators of the resort - but there is no way that it is “obvious” to guests, who the operators know come from all over the country and beyond to this attraction.
Therefore, it seems to me at least that the operators of the resort owe their guests a duty of care, to correct that imbalance in local versus non-local knowledge, and to warn guests of the hazard that ought to be “obvious” to the operator.
I cannot agree with the arguments, raised upthread, that the hazard is “obvious” to non-local guests, such that they had a duty to know about it.
I’m not really disputing it. But there’s a great deal we don’t know. I wouldn’t be surprised if somewhere in the hotel rental agreement there’s mention of such hazards in a way that provides some form of legal cover for Disney. Grandpa Walt didn’t raise no fools, after all.
I’ll be down at Disney - though not at the Floridian - in less than two weeks. I can keep an eye out for such. Though it’ll be of questionable use as if they didn’t have that, they’ll have it soon.
As for those suggesting Disney keep the place clear of alligators I would argue that the law can’t compel an impossibility. Short of sealing the entire Walt Disney World resort off from the world with a dome and installing airlocks I don’t believe that to be an acheiveable goal.
When You Wish Upon Pond-Scum,
Wild-life knows “You Sure Are Dumb”!
Anything may crawl through briars
And Come… For… You…
Wasn’t that the original plan that Walt had to keep out Jews?
I know there is a lengthy one at Animal Kingdom Lodge that includes such gems as “don’t leave children unsupervised on balconies” and “don’t climb fences that separate you from the animals.”
I also know that even with lifeguards the pool signs all say you are swimming at your own risk.
And you are right that Grandpa Walt didn’t raise fools. It would shock me if there wasn’t CYA language in your travel agreements. They sell you a cruise where they don’t even need to have the ship leave the dock to get paid according to your legal documents.
For a child at dusk or at night near murky water? A remote but obviously real risk.
A large part of the southeast has gators. Snapping turtles, fire ants, poisonous snakes, brain eating amoebas, brown recluses, yellow jacket colonies, crocodiles, sharks, and unhinged residents are also hazards.
That said, there is something about being at a theme park resort where the danger of alligators is not on the forefront of one’s mind.
As sad as this case is, there is no need to overreact to it. Fatal alligator attacks are still quite rare anywhere in their natural range. However, there is something funny going on in Florida as usual. There have been 17 fatal attacks in Florida since 1948 (alligators eating people already dead doesn’t count). However, Florida’s total number of alligator attacks (non-fatal and fatal) is off the charts compared to the other states in alligator territory. There have been 337 since 1948 while only 15 for #2, Texas, during the same period and most other states report attacks in the single digit range with no fatalities.
Louisiana has more alligators than any other state including Florida yet attacks of any type are almost unheard of and fatal attacks are virtually non-existent there. I haven’t heard a good explanation for it. The New Orleans area has a huge number of both drunk tourists and alligators too yet they don’t attack people. That doesn’t mean that you should let your two year old play near the water but countless people have done just that repeatedly with no alligator attacks. You have to watch out for Water Moccasins (the only aggressive venomous snake in the U.S.) and huge snapping turtles much more.
I don’t know what happened to the Florida alligator population but some of them are really pissed off at something or unusually bold. Alligators in other states don’t show the same aggression or maybe people just have more sense when dealing with them.
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/hea_all_att-health-alligator-attacks
Florida population density = 378/sq. mile.
Louisiana population density = 108.1/sq. mile
I wouldn’t say that explains everything ( settlement patterns probably also play a part ), but I suspect it is a real factor. I assume Floridians impinge on and adjoin alligator territory more regularly than in other states.
They may not STAY removed, but I would agree - if it’s a body of water that people have easy access to, it would be wise to do their best to eliminate or dramatically reduce the numbers.
I wonder if gators are like bears, where they learn that humans = easy food (in the case of bears, it’s either deliberate feeding or they raid the trash). The thought of a gator learning that these little things are easy snacks, and deliberately going after them, is a bit frightening.
According to this CNN report, Disney does employ full time staff to patrol and kill any alligators that “pose a threat.” I’m not sure what that means but it sounds like they don’t automatically kill them on sight. It’s perfectly normal for there to be alligators in that lake.
Yes, the greatest danger factor isn’t the gators themselves, but the people who feed them.
And according to CNN, Disney has now agreed to post “Beware of alligators” signs in its resorts.
That is almost certainly part of it but it is still an odd discrepancy. Alligators aren’t generally aggressive at all except in Florida and it is only barely so even there. They are the stoners of the crocodilian world. I wouldn’t swim in an area with crocodiles but I wouldn’t hesitate to in alligator infested waters. We had to growing up in Louisiana or you wouldn’t be able to swim, ski or boat anywhere because there are well over a million of them spread over the whole state. They are everywhere but they never threatened anyone in my experience. I even knew people that had them as pets and they can learn simple commands like coming when called and healing. They aren’t something I would encourage people to treat casually but they don’t go out of their way to attack people either.
Here is the level of stupidity that it generally takes to incite an alligator attack outside of Florida.
An East Texas man was killed in 2015 by basically jumping on top of one despite repeated warnings:
“Fuck That Alligator”: Man Killed Seconds After Mocking Gator Warning
For some levity, here is a true Louisiana cat that keeps the alligators in their place. That type of alligator behavior is more typical for alligator interactions. They usually just want to hang out and not cause much trouble. They are cold-blooded so they don’t need to eat very often.
Supposedly non-aggressive dog breeds attack and/or kill people much more often than alligators.
Oh, yes. And John Hammond:
Well, OK, the pirates don’t eat the tourists…
I heard that one of the staffer warned Disney that alligators were getting too close and a fence should be put up . This this is true that doesn’t look for Disney.