Could you, given ten minutes practice/experimentation time, a short melody that you know well, and a musical instrument of your choice, perform a reasonably correct and identifiable rendition of that melody? No chords or harmony to worry about, just the basic tune.
I ask because I was discussing how to play a particular tune with someone who is learning the guitar, and he asked me to show him precisely which notes to play - again, just a single-note melody, on one string to keep it simple, no chords or anything fancy. This is a person who can already play some tunes on a guitar, knows a few chords etc. It wasn’t a question of him saving some time by having me work out the tune - I got the distinct impression that he felt unable to work it for himself.
I happily obliged, but privately was a little taken aback. I would have thought that anybody who is not tone deaf (in the medical sense, not the casual “can’t hold a tune” sense) could, with some trial and error, locate the correct notes for a tune that they were familiar with. I mean, it’s just a matter of pressing keys/frets/buttons until you find the one that produces the note you want, and then playing each note for the correct duration. To me, it doesn’t seem to require any musical aptitude above the basic level that everybody has, apart from the aforementioned people who can’t actually perceive music properly. Or is even the level of aptitude not as universal as I thought?
No, I would not be able to do what you’re describing in a million years. I’ve had zero musical training, but have been taught a few chords on a guitar. I just never developed that skill. I think this is common for people who’ve never had any music lessons.
Not even “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star”? If you repeat the first note of the tune in your head, sit at a piano, and randomly press keys, eventually you will find one that matches, no? Then proceed to the next note (it’s actually the same note in that particular tune, so move on to the third note). In no time, you will have the whole tune down.
I guess I’m struggling to see how anyone with functioning musical perception could not be able to do that.
Yes, but I play a number of instruments and am pretty well-practiced at just this. I go to old-time/bluegrass music sessions and can usually be playing along with an unfamiliar fiddle tune the second or third time through the form.
No, I think this is a skill that needs to be developed and it not innate. If you play an instrument passably well, I think the concept of reproducing a melody linearly on a piano keyboard or guitar string makes a certain amount of sense (even if these are not your instruments), but I think for most people this is as foreign a concept as using a slide rule.
Well, I feared it may come across as arrogant, but it seems to me that the very fundamental perceptual abilities I am describing should be universal (except among people with certain rare disorders). Is it the part about finding a note on the keyboard that matches the one you’re hearing in your head? Maybe not everybody can necessarily hear that two notes are the same?
The “why would I bother” comment may have been an aside about the banality of “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star”, but I think it could be relevant - perhaps it’s more the case that some people would just not be interested enough to go through the somewhat tedious process of finding the notes for a tune. In that case it could be tempting to dismiss it as too hard. In other words, it’s not a difference in ability, it’s a difference in level of motivation.
No, you can’t, and that’s how you make mistakes and get off tune. I can carry a tune, and learned a little how to play the piano and even the Indian accordian (harmonicum) but I need the notes written down for me.
Hell, even professional musicians read from music books! Why would rank amateurs be able to do it from scratch?
it does, but IME it’s par for the course with musicians.
I can “match” a note if I do so at the same time as listening to it, but if I try to match it based on memory I have a miserable success rate. Back when I was 15 and tried to learn guitar (like every 15 year old guy has) I would try to do this and find I was way off.
this is part of it as well. For me there’s no motivation to try to tap/pluck out a simple melody because it’s not going to go any further than that. It’s an “accomplishment” which carries no reward.
I have no musical training, and no natural ability. People who have no piano training, but can sit down and work out a tune from some innate musical talent amaze me.
In your original premise, the answer is no. Not in 10 minutes. Give me a day, maybe. Not sure though, as much as I love music, I admit to having zero natural talent to make it.
I get the sense that those who say they could never do it have never even tried.
Take “Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star.” We’ll assume you know the tune. Surely you can recognize it when it’s sung or played. And surely you can tell when a wrong note is hit. And surely you can tell when the pitch goes up (higher) or down (lower). The song has six different notes. Given ten minutes of trial and error on a piano keyboard, I can not for the life of me see how anyone could NOT figure it out. In fact, I’d be surprised if it took more than one minute.
Can those of you who say you simply can’t do it honestly say you’ve given it a fair try and failed?
It is extremely arrogant, and completely misses the really very simple point that people are different.
No, I cannot recognise “tunes”. I can listen to music and enjoy it, but I cannot and will probably never be able to identify the individual notes or chords that make the song as a whole. Just as I cannot pick out different shades of green because of my colourblindness. The notes do not leave individual signatures on my consciousness.
However, I once ran 100 meters in under twelve seconds. I am completely astonished that not everybody can do this, its just moving your arms and legs after all.
I could easily see how a neophyte could manage to plink out a semblance of a tune on a piano. The notes are all there, just waiting to be hit. On a guitar, you greatly multiply the difficulty by needing to decide on what string to pick or strum with one hand and what fret to use with the other hand.
Just about anyone can peck at keys one at a time, but needing the coordination to have both hands doing something appropriate with a guitar would escape a lot of people. I know that I’d be hard-pressed to do anything other than annoy the dog with a guitar.
Let’s make it worse - can a neophyte pick out a passable tune on a hurdy-gurdy?
I couldn’t do anything of the sort either, I listen to music for hours a day and appreciate it but I don’t understand it at all intuitively. I can’t play any instruments, sing very well, or visualize musical notes in my head. You might as well be asking how long it would take a color blind person to learn to differentiate red and green in fine detail. It just isn’t there. I don’t even understand the concept of musical notes, keys, octaves whatever. I know what they are roughly speaking but I don’t understand why some keys have certain names. To me, you can start with any note and just go up or down in sequence from it to make a tune. I wouldn’t be a very good piano tuner.
I think anyone can learn to do it, if they aren’t tone deaf. But to do it as quickly as you state without ever having done it before? No way. Have you never tried to teach someone before?
And, yes, some people can learn it more quickly than others, and some will be able to get better than others. But anyone who can sing can learn to play melodies by ear.
One thing that is interesting is that it’s easier to teach someone who has never learned to play the instrument than even an amateur who only learned to read. People who learned to only read have a different relationship to music, and have formed different habits that are extremely hard to break.
Likewise, it’s easier to teach a child, and quite difficult to teach an older adult.
My wife can sight read sheet music for voice, recorder and flute - she took music lessons as a child, and was a teacher at a music school from HS through college - but can’t “pick out” tunes at all. I on the other hand, learned to play recorder in elementary school 30+ years ago and used to just play it on my own for fun as a kid at random times. I’ve basically forgotten how to read sheet music, but I can pick one up and pick out a tune exactly as you describe, sometimes on the first go (most recently when she wondered, “how does the intro music to that 1980s cartoon mini-series go, for The Mysterious Cities of Gold?”).
I don’t have perfect pitch or anything - I don’t think - so the melodies I pick out are probably not in the original key. But it’s the right tune.
She finds this astounding, which puzzles me. As BigT says, to me it’s almost the same as being able to sing back a melody I just heard. There’s a “tune in my head” and a tune I can hear coming out of the instrument, so it’s just a matter of adjusting things until they line up. My own voice is something I use daily so it’s easiest, while I’m far from a daily twiddler with any instrument (recorder or otherwise) so I have to pick and error-correct a lot more. But I expect if I devoted myself for some amount of time I’d be much more “native” with the recorder.
I mean, how else would people be able to “jam”, just stand up and play music that’s in their head/heart/soul without writing it down first? I know not everyone could do this equally well, but it surprises me that someone who’s otherwise quite musically adept (as my wife is) would NOT be able to do it at all.
You actually might be better at tuning a piano than you think - you wouldn’t be distracted by the musical aspect of the process. I’ve run across more than one tuner who couldn’t actually play a piano if their life depended on it.
I could play something simple straight off, but I’ve sort of cheated a bit by playing guitar for thirty five or so years. I do think there’s more to it than training and practice. I have been able to figure stuff out for myself from the start, other people don’t seem to have that ability. I have a neighbour who comes over occasionally to play old* Beatles songs at me and get some guidance** He has been playing for years but still can’t hear that he’s using some wrong chords and singing the tune wrong ::argh::
*a bit redundant that ‘old’ - there aren’t likely to be any new Beatles songs. What I mean is he seems to pick dull songs off the early albums.
**lessons, kinda. If he was an actual pupil I’d make him practice some fracking scales.
