Almost anybody can pick out a tune on some musical instrument. Right?

Not only did I spend a fruitless half hour trying to figure out how to get that online keyboard to make some semblance of “Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star” or “Mary Had a Little Lamb”, I have to admit that I’ve never actually been sure what the words “key”, “octave”, or “chord” mean.

I can certainly hum or whistle a tune just fine. I cannot say when one note is a bit higher or lower than another. I cannot always be sure if two of the same note in a row are really the same, or if the difference is just too small for me to notice. (If the difference is large, I can tell - but I can’t tell “how many notes” higher or lower it is. I just know that it’s lower or higher.)

I don’t know – I can and play just about anything by following along with my ear, in real time, to another instrument (including making up harmonies).

But that’s only on my own instrument – keyboards (pianos and Hammond). I can barely even sing a tune with my own voice, which is what I’ve been working on and considering hiring a voice teacher lately.

I played a year or maybe two ago “Happy Birthday” for the first time, with a guitarist – I’d never played the tune before, nor probably will I ever. But it kind of worked under the hands (until no one was singing along and I brought it into a jazz-funk version until some guy with an ear-trumpet said “HAPPY BIRTHDAY!”). I couldn’t write a good harmonized version with pencil and paper, probably, though. That’s my own weakness.

Notes are absolute. For instance, Middle A is 440 Hz. If you step up an octave to the next A, it’s 880 Hz. Go up one more octave and you’re at 1760 Hz (and double it for each octave up or halve it for each octave down). Anything that vibrates at 440 cycles per second is going to make that A pitch. Different instruments and voices will make different sounds, but at that frequency, the pitch will be the same.

If you sing an A, with a manly deep voice, you might be at 110 or 220 Hz. The little girl might be singing at 1760 Hz. It’s still the same note.

If you hold the sustain pedal down on a piano and hit the middle A, it’ll seem louder because the other A strings will vibrate in sympathy(?) at half, double, quadruple, etc. the frequency.

I think that’s a fine explanation, and very much to the point – there’s no question what an octave or a fifth is, and so forth for more complicated reasons related to tuning standards, in part for the reasons you mention.

(But, A is not necessarily 440 HZ – this is a fairly arbitrary standard which only some people use today. The principles remain the same, however. Thank the Greeks!).

ETA I didn’t want to give the impression I was some simp who couldn’t play and harmonize a tune I’d heard a million times but never played. Just an illustration of how most musicians can do this, with enough practice.

I don’t see what the big debate is here. If you are capable of recognizing a tune, then you have the ability, given a reasonable period of time to work it out, to pick out a reasonable semblance of that tune on a simple instrument, such as a keyboard or a toy xylophone. It requires no specialized knowledge of music whatesoever, only the common ability to hear the relative difference between notes. The only way you wouldn’t be able to do this would be if you had no perception of music at all, that is true tone deafness.

Surely there are case studies available regarding simple musical ability (ability to pick out a simple melody in some simple way given an audible example) in the general population?

I sense a ritardando in the thread (not you, just the thread is SLOWING down all the way to SLOW). Special, in a way.

They used to call it tone-deafness, didn’t they? By way of addressing your (very good) question?

The main question is something I’ve been struggling with for six or seven years – why can I hear something clearly in my ear, play it (more or less–I hope more, but it depends) on my instruments, but struggle to reproduce it vocally.

The question I’d ask a vocal teacher – I had a good one lined up, but lost her card, and haven’t had the scratch lately to dig another one up – is if the conception in my mind is faulty, or if it’s a problem with the instrument (in this case, vx)?

I’d imagine people who can’t type well would have trouble with most winds or keys or percussion instruments, but what if the conception fails and the failure is internal, and not “external,” as it were?

That would be my major question asking a new vocal teacher to help me with. I can do solfege, transcribe (a shit-ton I do), but it just doesn’t come out right without thinking about it.

nm

OP here: I won’t address all the responses, because others have said what I would have said. Of the counterarguments, I thought that[ B]Lasciel** in particular made some good points in post #25. Other people have said that I am incorrectly assuming that a certain level of ability is innate, and countering with examples of non-innate ability, such as reading or novel-writing. But clearly some relatively sophisticated abilities are innate, such as walking and talking, which infants largely acquire themselves.

But to put my point another way, my contention is that anyone with the following abilities can reproduce a simple melody:

(1) Ability to determine whether two notes are the same.
(2) Ability to reproduce a simple tune, for example by whistling or singing it, or just “hearing” it in your imagination, and so be able to compare the note produced by the instrument to the desired note.

The following are not strictly necessary, but will speed things up no end:

(3) Ability to determine whether one note is higher or lower than another note.
(4) Ability to establish how to produce higher or lower notes with the instrument e.g. on a piano, the notes get higher as you move to the right.
I believe that (1) is an innate ability that requires no training or special aptitude, although I take the point made earlier that the same note can sound different on different instruments.

Some people have suggested that (2) is not universal. OK, how about if, instead of having to recall the tune in your head while finding the notes on the instrument, you have some patient assistant repeatedly sing it or play it to you?

Some people also assert that (3) is not innate. If so, this would go a long way to answering the question. I invite people to try the interval test at Interval Ear Training (requires Flash) - click New Interval and you will hear two nearby notes, either ascending, descending or the same (called “unison” in music-speak). I would have thought that most people could easily distinguish between unison and non-unison. But can “almost anybody” easily tell whether the first note of the pair is higher or lower?

It seems to me that (4) is just common sense. It’s pretty straightforward on a piano, but can be less intuitive on other instruments such as wind instruments. So we’ll stick to piano.

And one more clarification - in the OP I am talking about a very simple tune, a riff really, of ten notes. No chords or harmony, not a Beethoven concerto in multi-part polyphony. The actual tune in question (I’m not going to name in in case the person sees this) is about as simple as Twinkle Twinkle Little Star.

I am also not expecting people to render the tune in the correct key. So, in the case of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, both C C G G A A G and G G D D E E D would be correct - same tune, different key.

I tried the link, but it doesn’t say anything about “higher” or “lower” (or “ascending” or “descending”). It has options for: Unison, Minor 2nd, Major 2nd, Minor 3rd. You’ve defined unison, but I have no idea what the other three mean.

Wow. We had that test, too, for 6th grade band, and it was mandatory attendance. You had to make a perfect score to pass. Over half of the 200 kids could do it, although everyone who failed failed miserably.

Maybe my experience trying to teach this stuff isn’t normal.

I can tell when notes are different (“unison” was a snap to identify) but I have no friggin’ clue about intervals.

I think there’s another option besides “innate” and “requires special training or aptitude,” which is requires exposure. I suspect that if I spent enough time listening to simple melodies and practicing repeating them, I could possibly learn to do so without “special training or aptitude.” I think it’s very likely that if I’d done this as a child I would be able to get it, again without “special training or aptitude.”

I wouldn’t say speaking French is innate, but they teach it to every infant in France! I suspect music is very similar to language. BTW, one reason it is much harder to acquire a native accent as an adult is that we learn to distinguish sounds as a small child. If you haven’t learned the French vowels as a child, you’ll try as an adult to map them onto the sounds you already know. Even if you can learn the difference between English and French vowels, you’ll have difficulty distinguishing French vowels that don’t “match up” with your native vowels on a one to one basis, and you’ll have trouble reproducing them.

Also, it seems to me that anyone who thinks most people can replicate a simple melody has obviously never been to a birthday party!

ETA: I couldn’t find the “new interval” test on that website.

OK, I got the test to work. I had to reload the page for some reason.

I’m pretty sure that if I had someone patiently repeating the melody on the same instrument that I could reproduce it with enough time. Number 2 is the hard part for me. I suspect that’s the sticking point for most people. I could tell (I think) whether the notes on that test were ascending or descending, but I couldn’t tell from memory which notes in Twinkle, Twinkle were, notwithstanding the fact that if I actually heard it I could usually tell if it was correct or not (or at least I think I could; I’m not at all positive.)

I certainly couldn’t pick out a tune with any good success rate on a piano, let alone a string instrument. I’m not tone deaf (I can discern which is the higher of two notes, which is the usual definition) but when trying to pick between two notes to decide which is the correct one for the song I’m remembering, I do very poorly. Left to my own devices to pick out a tune, I’d more likely work out a sequence of notes that roughly follow the higher-or-lower progression correctly, but I’d rarely pick the actual correct note.

I got 2 out of 10 correct. I’m the guy who has been playing playing classical guitar for 30 years. Give me the sheet music – all that ‘play by ear’ stuff is some kind of voodoo witchcraft.

Sorry, you can ignore the intervals like “minor third” and so on. That is way above the level of this discussion. Just to clarify the purpose of my linking to that test (which was simply the best tool I could find in a quick search) - I wanted to see if people could tell whether a pair of notes were the same, or first one higher than the second, or first one lower than the second. That’s all. So I configured the test to produce pairs of notes like that. I guess I need to find a tool which actually tells you if you got the higher/lower thing right…
It’s immaterial to this discussion whether you can tell what the exact interval is. I’m not too good at that myself. For me at least, that certainly does require practice.

I’m the same as you, a piano player who can transcribe but can’t sing for shit. I think it’s the lack of physical ability to reproduce the correct note with the vocal chords. When I try to sing a melody, I can hear that I’m hitting every other note wrong, but I can’t physically make my voice produce the correct notes. A voice can be trained, but some people have the natural ability to sing in tune and some don’t.

I have no musical talent whatsoever. Seriously. I’ve tried clarinet, piano, recorder, and guitar, and I’ve never had the dexterity to play them (or possibly the patience to sit through lessons and practice as a child). I envy people who can play musical instruments, 'cause I know it’s just not my thing. And singing. . .well, I don’t seem to have very good control of my voice. I’ll know it’s off, and know that I need to go up or down, but can’t seem to dial in on the control needed to do it. I also can’t read-read music. I mean, I can tell you what the notes are (this one’s an G, this one is an A#), but I can’t get an idea of what it sounds like or hum it from the music. When I was in chorus in middle school, I had to play my parts on the recorder before I could sing them. Badly.

That being said, if you give me a recorder or a piano/keyboard, and give me a tune that I’m familiar with, I’ll’ve figured out a few bars before long. I’ve done it with simple staples (The Star Spangled Banner, Mary Had a Little Lamb, and that sort of thing) and with really familiar songs that aren’t as simple (the Firefly theme, some REM songs–they might be musically simple, I don’t know, but we don’t generally hear them as tunes so much as full-fledged, multi-instrument songs). When I’ve done this–it’s not often, usually just when I’m bored and have some sort of instrument nearby–I’ve usually checked afterwards by looking it up online or what-have-you, and it’s almost always right. It’s not really that hard for me.

That being said, I’m fairly certain my wiring regarding music’s a little skewed. I can’t sleep with music playing. I have a certain amount of synesthesia regarding instruments (not involving pitch up and down with the same instrument, though). Sometimes, especially before or after one of my blessedly rare migraines, I lose the ability to hear a multi-instrument song as a song; I just hear the individual parts, but not the whole. I suppose that would be useful if I had any sort of musical inclination or talent, but I don’t, so it’s just sort of creepy and annoying and surreal. Obviously, something in my brain’s wired a bit oddly. So, while I recognize that it’s easy for me, I don’t think it’s especially common.