Yeah, but how do I make a quote box?
It’s amazing how close he came to disappearing.In World War I,he was in his bunker when he had a terrible nightmare of being buried alive.Running from it,he ran screaming towards no-man’s-land(not the best plan in a world war).Seconds later a shell landed and killed everyone in that bunker.
And in 1944 when Stauffenberg tried to kill him,the bomb was in a position where it would have killed him.Except a few minutes before,a Field Marshal wanting a better look at a map shifted an annoying suitcase out the way 
Another occasion where a bomb was timed to go off after about 20-mins of a 30-min review,Hitler cut it short for no apparent reason after about 10 mins.
And again a bomb was supposed to go off-The wire burnt down but inexplicably it didnt make it go back.
Someone was looking out for him…They neednt’ve bothered…
Paul
The quote box starts off with [QUOTE} (replace the squigley quote bracket with the solid one), and ends with [/QUOTE}
Anything in between these two quotes will be in a box.
Declan
Thank you
Sorry I’ve been so long in coming back to this…got called out of the country for a major network outage.
My ‘branching’ off of history was late 30’s (sorry, I wrote that pretty fast on my way to the airport). Basically my premise was that Germany launched a war of agression into, say, Checkoslovacia (i.e. before Poland and its quasi-alliance with the Soviets), but is somehow thwarted (say by the allies…I’ll leave it vague as to how they might have accomplished that). At that time the German military was still kind of skitish and not at all confident that tweeking the allies collective noses was a good idea, and if the allies had of put real preasure on Germany the Nazi house of cards might have folded, perhaps with a military coup by the German Army. At any rate, say that some event caused the Nazi’s to fall from power and the Germans give up war’s of agression (at least at that time and in the way the Nazi’s did it)…what would happen?
I disagree. I think one thing that is being overlooked is the fact that the Nazi’s (and especially the German Army) didn’t KNOW they were going to win…and didn’t really have confidence they COULD beat the allies until after the fact (their confidence came from first Poland and then France and western Europe). The German Army (and especially the Navy) didn’t think it was ready for a major war and wanted to wait. A lot of Hitlers early successes built off the fact that he pushed and no one pushed back very hard…so he kept pushing. I know the German military was pretty dismayed initially when they realized they had gotten themselves into a war with Britian/France before they were fully prepared…and this was after the smashing successes in Poland. Had the allies somehow pushed hard BEFORE that and/or if the German Army had met defeat in Checkoslovacia I think its possible the Nazi’s would have been out of power…possibly even a military style coup by the German Army.
Its a good point. I think that the ‘civil rights movement’ WOULD have happened (albiet in a different way) in the US reguardless…but it would have taken a lot longer time and been a much slower (and perhaps more painful) process. However all the seeds were there before WWII, and attitudes were slowly changing in the US, and I think eventually Americans would have come around…if for no other reason that the fact the Europeans were already looking down on us for our attitudes and our racism. My guess is that by today we’d be perhaps where we were in the 60’s or 70’s as far as race relations go.
Great responses so far from everyone!! I love playing these alternative history games.
-XT
Thats actually real life history, Germany lost part of its territory in the treaty of versaille , aka the sudatenland, which is in the czech republic, not sure if czechsolvakia is a post ww2 construct , of the old czech republic and slovakia.
True , the average landser was actually scared shitless of the Polish Cavalry , the same ones that rode into machine gun fire , proving the end of that era of warfare, supposedly those poles had something of a mean reputation.
But in any case , the military was unprepared , by the german general staff estimates , the earliest the war should have kicked off was , in 42 , when the german navy would have had the optimum number of Uboats , which would have effectively blockaded the UK.
They (nazis) don’t have to fall from power for a coup, just lose in either the czech or suffer some sort of invasion by france ,and forced to accept a bitter peace again, then hitler loses his mystique with the people , which is pretty much the reason the real assination attempt , did not take place till 44.
Declan
It’s hard to say. A major impetus to the civil rights movement was the massive relocation of blacks from the rural south to northern cities during WWII. This created a black voting block for the first time since the Reconstruction era.
I’d also like to offer another fictional reference; “Southern Strategy” by Michael Flynn, which appeared in the Alternate Generals II anthology. It’s about a world where the US stayed out of WWI and remained a minor power. The League of Nations was formed and several European powers send peacekeeping forces into the American South in the 1930’s because of the racial problems there and are still there twenty years later. An excellent story that manages to bring together Adlai Stevenson, George Wallace, Martin Luther King, Erwin Rommel, Tallulah Bankhead, Elvis Presley, and Richard Nixon.
Anyone care to take a stab at the Chinese situation, with and without subjugation by Japan? How far could Japan have gone in their forced colonization, without the Germans as allies and tying up the Red Army? Is China broken into two or three states, with Chiang Kai-Shek and Mao still vying for leadership in the provinces beyond the reach of Japan’s forces? Without war on their western border, does Stalin actively support Mao? (And if Mao vanquishes Chiang Kai-Shek, there wouldn’t be a quasi-independent Taiwan today.) I suspect that Mao’s fate echoes that of Stalin’s in this respect: that without the threat of an overwhelming invader, his long-term prospects as an irrational dictator are considerably more limited.
My feeling is that with a Stalin-Mao pact a possibility, Japan may focus its “Co-Prosperity Sphere” ambitions towards the Western European colonies instead, only without the distractions and complications introduced by attacking the U.S. and the Chinese mainland.
Re. Germany, oil and anti-semitism: without the outbreak of full-blown war (and the doomed push towards Stalingrad, the Crimea and the Ploesti oil fields in Romania), Germany will almost certainly pursue a solution for its oil supply crisis by cementing a stronger alliance with either Iran and Iraq or the Persian Gulf Arab states, or both. (Geography and political alliances probably favored Iran in particular as ally and oil source, however, due to the British control over the Suez Canal; to ensure access to this oil, however, Germany would have to keep Turkey, their WWI ally, happy.) Theirs was a natural quid pro quo: oil in return for scientific/technical/engineering goods and services, with cultural exchanges as a bonus – e.g., a revival of Orientalism in Germany, and the exporting of virulent Nazi-style anti-semitism (and perhaps killing methods) to a receptive Arab audience. This also suggests that as long as a “cold war” persists between the contained Nazis and France and Britain, those tensions would be mirrored in the religious schisms of the Middle East – Germany’s alliance with the Shiite Persians, and Anglo- and Franco- trade relationships with the Sunni Gulf states.
I think the Japanese invasion of China would have pretty much followed the same course. Japan was fully committed to the Chinese war long before their alliance with Germany or Germany’s alliance with the Soviet Union. The only possible factor that might have changed their situation was a greater willingness by England and France to intervene in Asia if they didn’t feel threatened in Europe. In 1941, when the United States imposed economic sanctions against Japan, the Japanese felt confident that they could successfully occupy European colonies in southeast Asia because the European powers were all involved in their war with Germany. But if there was no war to distract them, Japan probably wouldn’t have risked trying to move south. They might instead have tried the other plan they were considering in 1941 - an attack against the Soviet Union to seize Siberia.
Well Japan was already in China and Manchuria, so I would say that this ocupation would continue. The real question is how long could the Japanese hold onto China, and the answer is probably for quite a long time with China divided and fighting amongst itself. I doubt Japan would have risked a war with the US without Germany and the distractions of war in Europe, but they certainly might have attempted something against the French colonies or possibly the Russians. The French had quite a powerful fleet as I recall, but it was mostly pretty far away in Europe and it would have been difficult for them to protect their colonies in Indochina in a timely manner. Same goes for the British, though their fleet presence was a bit stronger in Asia. Russia didn’t really have much of a fleet, but I recall they had quite a few divisions of troops in Siberia (which they used as reserves when Germany attacked, if memory serves). I don’t remember when Japan and Russia signed their non-agression treaty, but without a major war with the US Japan might have chosen them for further expansion over the more powerful (perceived anyway) powers in Europe or the US.
I wonder who would win in a war between the USSR and Japan in Siberia though, and who else might get dragged in. I doubt the US would get involved (except for maybe some sanctions), but would Britian become involved? France? Who would side with the Soviets in a war against Japan for Siberia??
-XT
Hands down ,I have to give this one to the Soviets. While the soviet army of the time was woefully under equipped to take on the germans, the japanese on the other hand , would be fighting way above their weight , tank for tank.
In our time , Marshal zkukov was one of the few pre perge generals to survive , primarily cause he was in siberia , preparing for a japanese invasion. With no germans to fight , its likely that zhukov would have handed the japanese their heads.
But look to the western powers to muddy the waters , the soviets were tolerated by the major powers at the time , but I imagine someone was planning to deal with stalin at some point.
Declan
The Japanese most likely would have lost a war against the Soviets. They tried a probing attack in Mongolia and the Red Army knocked them back across the border. The fact is is that Japan was not a strong power for land warfare. They failed to appreciate Patton’s dictum that you don’t win a war by dying for your country; you win it by making the other guy die for his country. Japanese army doctrine basically concentrated on developing a sense of fanatic devotion and iron discipline. But a devoted and disciplined soldier who gets hit by a bullet dies just the same as anyone else. Meanwhile the Japanese failed to keep up on weapon development and their tanks and artillery were about a decade behind their opponents.
I agree that the Soviets with the T-34 and an inborn stubornness would have handed the Japanese their head had they attacked into Siberia. But would the Japanese know that? Or would they have expanded into other territory…like that owned by the UK or France? Or would they have been intimidated by the Europeans and stopped their expansion with China? Were there any other areas they could have expanded into without triggering the major powers? What about Korea?
-XT
The Japanese had already occupied Korea in 1907.
Actually Australia comes to mind
While Britain and et al would have joined in , the sheer size of australia makes for some interesting planning.
The limiting factor is that Japan is a maritime power that requires outside raw materials , just blockading the home Islands would have major impact.
So depending on who would have won Jutland in the pacific , decides the fate of Australia.
Declan