No good deed goes unpunished. That phrase rings true everyday.
I, for one, refuse to live in that fear all of the time. If there is something going on, I am going to my best to help them (whether that involves me getting into the action as a last resort or not), because I would hope that someone would do the same for me.
I forgot to state that I do not think you are a coward, legion. You did sensible things. It’s a shame the police did not care to really do anything. What do you have left when the police don’t care to do their job? Anarchy.
I agree with the policy if not stoppingother people’s fight physically. I was always taught that doing such was more likely to get you hurt than actually fightng yourself.
I suspect that the fears of subsequent, (not the immediate), retaliation from the drunks were overblown. Likely that the incident would be written off in the light of day, IMHO.
As men, there is a fine line between the “obligations” to protect our fellows and our family.
The phone call was appropriate. I also like the idea of the porch light and the notification that the police had been called.
I don’t know you and the various variable of the situation to decide if you are a coward or not. From what I do know of people in general, you were probably unlikely to have made the difference physically that you would’ve liked to relatively safely. The drunk’s friend is likely to have interfered with your interference. Unless you were certain of you ability to to deal with the situation safely and effectively in a way that you could think of at the time I’d guess that you are not a coward.
Making a start towardthe door when you knew that you’d be stopped is kind of showy though.
I would also like to stae I would not call you a coward.
Its My umble opinion that this is why citizens should be armed.
He could’ve fird a shot out the window and I’ll bet That would’ve dispersed them.
And it’s my 'umble opinion that if the drunk had been armed and so inflamed he might well have shot the girl, or his “mate”, or the youth, or legion, or any combination of the above.
I think the calculation to become involved has to take into account your capacity to do so, one man entering into a mêlée with at least six people whose loyalties you cannot judge would perhaps be foolhardy.
Just making your presence known might have been sufficient, though it is impossible to tell. Sometimes you don’t get the chance to calculate:
My wife (now ex) and I were walking home one night when we heard what we took to be the distressed but muffled voice of a female coming from some waste ground. We approached and, upon seeing some figures stood silently in a corner, I said something cheesy like, “What’s goin’ on 'ere then?” A male stepped away from the girl saying something like, “Nothin’! I was just robbin’ 'er.” (!)
I moved in between them, and perhaps (and certainly inadvertantly) moved towards him. He, sensing some immediate threat from me said, “Come on, then!”, I sensing some immediate threat from him took off my heavy jacket – not to fight more easily but to hit him with.
It was about this moment that my five foot five, 100 pound wife came tearing past me directly towards this guy (who was not small), screaming, “You bastard!”, whereupon he took off. I took off after him – it took several strides to pass my wife – but he, obviously adrenalised like hell, ran at a truly impressive rate and I gave up after fifty yards or so.
The girl was not just being “robbed”, but had been forced to (partially) undress at knife point.
Everytime I think of it, I am glad we intervened, and I am so proud of my ex, mad though she was.
I would have phoned the police the instant I realized he had tried to hit someone (regardless of their gender). That’s a crime, and someone who is being attacked (or in danger of being attacked–the attacker merely being held at bay) deserves help right off the bat. No waiting to see what else develops.
I wouldn’t go outside unless I knew my presence would make a difference. (And in my case, not bloody likely.) Or if it was a child. I don’t think I would at all consider the consequences, I’d just barrel out there, if something was happening to a child.
Someone who is worked into a violent rage won’t care who he takes it out on (evidenced by the boy who suffered his rage). And lord only knows, in weird situations like that, his friends could have also turned on you.
People do need to get involved, though. I can’t believe no one else called the police or did anything at all. It reminds me of something that happened to me once. I don’t want to go into it, but a guy was doing something to me in public and I screamed bloody murder and everyone stood around watching like I was a wall and paint was drying on me. They watched, but they looked bored. No one did a thing.
So the youth sauntered accross the street TOWARD an altercation. You probably couldn’t see, nor would you have thought to look for any kind of weapon (a knife?) carried by the little tyke? That the ensuing attack was violently agressive suggests that these two desparados knew one another. Ususally when I’m swinging wildly at my wife in a drunken rage and I happen to strike an innocent passer-by, my unbridled emotion changes to regret (and I’ve seen the same effect in others) and I get all sloppy and appologetic provided the innocent doesn’t get all belligerent back to me.
If Big dude managed to get himself together enough to do an on-target, off-balance right hook and then follow it up with love, my money says he thought it was in his own best interest to do so, and that junior would have done the same or worse to him. In a time where 7-year drug lord old hitmen walk the streets of the Capital of the most powerful nation on earth, age means less and less in crimes given the setting in your 'hood that night. Upon reflection some right nasty mischief was probably going down. As a dad & husband (I don’t really whup up on my woman) I can look back on your scene and say, “Bad idea to get in there and mix it up.” But as just another guy, just like all the other guys on your street, I’d be disinclined to get involved in an altercation with drunks. And when it took the turn this one did, i can honestly say that I’d be all over that doorknob as long as I knew my wife would be there to stop me.
In any event, I don’t recon you actions cowardice. But I do particularly like the idea of hooking up with the neighbors and developing a contingiency plan for next time. I live in a quiet part of town myself, but I know complacency begs for exploitation.
I do not think you are a coward at all, in fact the cops would probably say you did the right thing. I, on the other hand, would have been filled with rage to see him trying to strike a woman in front of my home and would have confronted him. And knowing my luck it would have ended badly for both of us, cops don’t take kindly to vigilantes.
I guess I need to be the bad guy here…
A kid was hit hard and then his face stomped on while unconscious. If given a few more seconds, the kid could be dead.
You did nothing.
This, to me, means you committed a cowardly act.
I’m not calling you a coward, per se, but in this situation you acted cowardly. This could have been just surprise and indecision on your part. You would need to look at how you have reacted to situations in the past to see if there is a cowardly trend.
I would like to think I would have yelled, screamed, ran outside, done something to save the kids life. Is there risk? You damn tootin there is! The guy could have come after you, had a gun…but that is the difference between a heroic act and a cowardly one.
You want an example of a heroic act? In the LA riots, there was a trucjer down getting beatin in an intersection. Reporters reported it and one guy watched it on TV and went to the intersection and got him out of there. He took some serious risk doing this. THAT is a hero.
Don’t beat yourself up over it (ok bad pun). Just vow that next time you will act different.
Actually, you should beat yourself up a little bit Do this by acknowledging the act and feeling the shame and not making excuses for it. Vow that you will never feel that way again.
Sorry if I sound ‘mean’ but I think I write the truth.
It sounds like you were thinking about your wife and kids like any person who cares most of the well being of their family. I wouldn’t beat yourself up about it. I’m sure others heard the commotion and you weren’t the only one to make the desicion to stay in your house.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by andymurph64 *
**I guess I need to be the bad guy here…
A kid was hit hard and then his face stomped on while unconscious. If given a few more seconds, the kid could be dead.
You did nothing.
This, to me, means you committed a cowardly act.
I’m not calling you a coward, per se, but in this situation you acted cowardly. This could have been just surprise and indecision on your part. You would need to look at how you have reacted to situations in the past to see if there is a cowardly trend.
I would like to think I would have yelled, screamed, ran outside, done something to save the kids life. Is there risk? You damn tootin there is! The guy could have come after you, had a gun…but that is the difference between a heroic act and a cowardly one.
You want an example of a heroic act? In the LA riots, there was a trucjer down getting beatin in an intersection. Reporters reported it and one guy watched it on TV and went to the intersection and got him out of there. He took some serious risk doing this. THAT is a hero.
So what if the guy did have a gun? Would have been heroic to be killed and leave his wife and kids with no father?
Parkerz,
What if that was your kid getting stomped on?
Remember, people always have rationalizations for their behavior. Nobody thinks of themselves as a coward or greedy or whatever. They always have rationalizations.
Your response sounds like the rationalization of a coward.
THINK ABOUT THIS! A 13-14 year old child was being killed right there and you actually think doing nothing is appropriate?
My God man! Sometimes I think the whole human race should be wiped out as we are unworthy of existance. 
Like what? Seriously, just what could he have done? Distracted attention from the kid by giving the guy a new victim to beat on?
He didn’t do ‘nothing’ - they called the police.
So it is late at night (how late?) and these teenagers purposely stroll right into an ongoing altercation? You don’t know anything about any of the folk involved, and you don’t indicate that you know what if anything immediately proceeded the KO punch.
And you feel as tho you might have had some obligation to expose you and yours to potential risk to help this dumbfuck exactly why?
IMO, you could have called the cops earlier, if for no other reason that these drunks were disturbing the peace. Or because the drunk guy was trying to hit a woman. I suggest if you want to question your actions, you might want to look at the societal desireability of your voyeurism. But I guess it was all good clean fun until a punch actually landed…
I can’t believe I am in the minority here. Well, yes I can because my faith in humanity is low these days.
Yes. I would like to think and truely believe I would volunteer to be the next person he beats up on if that’s what it takes. Anything to stop him from killing that kid. Calling the police is nice and all but won’t help that kid who’s life is on the line over the next few seconds.
Just curious, andymurph.
You been in a lot of fights with drunks?
And you’d willingly go looking to get involved in more, where you don’t know any of the parties involved, what they might be on, or what weapons they might be packing?
Hey. More power to you, guy. But sorry - I won’t have your back.
I’d never have guessed :rolleyes:
It wouldn’t be brave or heroic to go in and help this ‘kid.’ It would be stupid, macho, a way of saying ‘look at me, I’m Big Tough Man, I save day! Raar!’ Nasty Street Guy has already turned on two people with no provocation, do you really think he’s going to back down now? No, he’s probably going to get worse. So then Big Tough Man is shot by Nasty Street Guy, who is then imprisoned for murder (rather than the assault it would have been), Stomped-Face kid lives - until he gets caught in a bad drug deal or decides to walk into another fight - and Big Tough Guy’s kids are orphaned, and all the shit that comes with that.
Nothing heroic in that. It’s only heroic when you actually [help* the situation. The odds are very good that personal intervention would have made it worse, not helped it.
OK no one here except andymurph64 wants to berate you and guess what, the exact same thing will happen in front of thier houses too. They will sit (or stand by) while something of a significant nature happens right outside their door and do nothing or very little until its too late.
First of all you wanted to go outside and help the kid. Admirable. Your wife stopped you. That was expected. You letting her stop you. Sorry, bud wrong move. Think about it. Who are these people outside that you and your wife are so afraid of? Are these terrorists, mafia members, hardcore gangstas? No. Its 2 couples, having a very heated arguement and 2 kids come by. So basically you are cringing in fear from 6 kids who cant figure out how to have a relationship. As a matter of fact, its only one guy that was causing all the ruckus so in fact you and your neighbors were all afraid of one kid. If this guy was your son (same size and age)treating his girlfriend and a kid that way, what would you do? Would you stay inside and greet him by the door as if nothing happened?
My take and reaction: Like you I’d take in the entertainment as these kids get vocal in the middle of the night. No skin off my nose, I was awake anyway. When my wife wakes up, shes the kinda person who would enjoy whats goin on also (Soap opera fan and gossipy but i love her anyway) As soon as that moron takes a swing at his GF, Id be out the door yelling. I’d tell them to take their shit somewhere else. If they give me lip or challenge me, I’d let them know I had called the police. If they still challenge me (or call my bluff) Id tell my wife to call 911 NOW and get a baseball bat. Anyone stepping into my property gets solid wood across the face or a near miss anyway.
Downside: They may actually do what everyone fears and come back at another time and threaten me or my family. small chance of that IMHO. So whats this one kid going to do to you? Spray your walls? Stalk your kids? steal your car? All offenses you can have the police pick him up for. So it would be a good thing to call the police as soon as this kid started swinging so that they can take his name and address and you can reference him with any shennanigans later.
Upside: you wont have to post here for an feelings of inadequacy that your momentary loss of civic duty produced.
Best I can recommend at this point. Learn and do better next time. Just dont get yourself needlessly hurt. If that kid wallops me instead of that 14 year old, id consider that worth it.