Am I a prude? Ashley Madison.com

[RickJay]

@Cat_Fight

You have to admire the courage, though, of the attached people who include their photos in their profiles. Let’s hope their SOs don’t know how to work a computer.

You’re shitting me.

[MandaJo]

@corkboard

Does it make it any less unethical if the person isn’t married but is in a long-term exclusive relationship, and just wants a little something on the side without ending the relationship?

I think the offense is broader (if not “worse”) if they are a full fledged member of the other person’s family, whether or not there is a legal marriage. My brother has a (very) long term girlfriend that has nothing to do with any of the rest of our family. If any cheating goes on there, it’s between the two of them. However, my sister and our husbands are family–she and I and our husbands hang out nearly every week, we celebrate major holidays as a group, we have a whole web of connections between the four of us. If one of us were to cheat, the repercussions wouldn’t be limited to just the spouse, but all the connections would be distorted, perhaps destroyed. The same thing happens even more strongly when there are children in a relationship. The bulk of the offense is against the spouse, but the effects on others are still real.

[Acsenray]

@Gwyen

Yes, some people are going to cheat, but why make it acceptable and easy for them. Why doesn’t everyone see why marriages don’t last anymore? This is the kind of attitude that we have about “relationships” now!

I think you’re completely off base now. The fact that divorce is acceptable and that people will leave a broken relationship show the increased value of fidelity and marriage in society. In the past, it wasn’t that infidelity was less acceptable. In fact, wives were forced to accept it or face financial ruin.

If some number of individuals are going to cheat, it’s not worth our energy as a society trying to stop them. Let them cheat, get caught, and get divorced. That means the marriages that last are good ones. In fact, let them have technological tools and services like Ashley Madison to make it even more efficient. It’s all for the good.

@RickJay

You’re shitting me.

I’ve read that on regular dating sites, profiles without photos get few responses. I’m sure it’s the same on a cheating site. So they’ve got to decide whether to increase their risk of getting caught or decrease their risk of getting responses.

[Arglefraster]

I know someone (a friend of a friend) who’s not married or attached, but uses this site because she gets off on being the “other woman”. She claims she’s not doing anything wrong because it’s not like she’s the one who’s cheating. :rolleyes:

[Ronald_C.Semone]

But to get to the belief system underlying your original question, What is wrong with being a prude? I’m a prude: I don’t think 10-year old girls should dress like whores, I don’t think TV announcers should use foul language, I don’t think ads like the ones you mentioned are approriate.

[Duke]

@acsenray

I’ve read that on regular dating sites, profiles without photos get few responses. I’m sure it’s the same on a cheating site. So they’ve got to decide whether to increase their risk of getting caught or decrease their risk of getting responses.

Or put up someone else’s photo, which also happens on regular dating sites.

[Ludovic]

@Mahna_Mahna

You know, that trainwreck of a show that makes its money by catching various trailer-trash dumbasses cheating on camera.

You mean, it’s an actualization of Python’s Blackmail? :eek: (Or just taping cheater-catching for ratings?)

[Cisco]

Stern fan for over 11 years, about the farthest thing from a prude possible, hate the Ashley Madison ads.

And while we’re at it - - does anyone else loathe the voice of the guy who reads them??! He reads a lot of commercials on Sirius and his voice is so disgusting to me that I’ll never buy a product he hawks because I change the channel as soon as I hear him!

[joyfool]

To piggyback on WhyNot’s trip to HypotheticalLand, I could see one instance where this might not be so disgusting seeming…

A couple are separated and definitely getting a divorce, but one of them is batshit psycho about the other one moving on with their life. And the normal one, who say has now done without sex or affection for X amount of years, knows there is no reason to wait any longer especially if the legalities are going to be drug out forever. Which said loon is doing and will continue doing for as long as humanly possible.

So you can’t date anywhere even close to locally because of all the hell you and your dating partner will go through and you’re not even sure a how deeply into a relationship you’d want to get anyway due to the same nuttiness of the eventual-to-be-ex already mentioned. You see the ad and think it might be a solution because of the key word “discreet.”

I can see where, under those types of circumstances, there might be an appeal. Otherwise, not so much.

But that’s all I got on possibilities.

[Disclaimer: I’ve known someone in the exact scenario above. The only difference was they did NOT turn to any website to help them out of their dilemma. But for them, I certainly wouldn’t have judged their decision badly if they did. The ex was (is) insane.]

[Cluricaun]

All it will take is for one unscrupulous divorce attorney (I know, I know) to bring about a huge divorce settlement by trolling that site looking for business and winning a case to have that quickly become a thing of the past.

[Bricker]

@Jophiel

I don’t know if you meant “I never saw such a claim” to mean against the 3rd party in the marriage or against “other parties” but back in the '80s when my parents divorced, my mother’s attorney found such an “Alienation of Affection” law on the books in Illinois and used it to sue the woman my father was seeing. I can’t say how it would have held up in court since my father wound up giving up the house and car in return for my mother dropping the suit. To hear my mom speak of it, when the attorney filed the suit, the clerk was a bit surprised to learn such a law still existed and that anyone was using it.

I never saw such a claim, period, but since I didn’t practice civil law of any flavor, that’s not surprising.

According to the ultra-reliable Wikipedia, the tort is still recognized in Hawaii, Illinois, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Mississippi, New Mexico, South Dakota, and Utah, so that would fit with your recollection.

[Gfactor]

A. The “Heartbalm” Torts

The heartbalm or amatory torts all involve derailed intimate relationships. An alienation of affections claim arises when a defendant intentionally interferes with a marriage, straining relations between husband and wife.Criminal conversation occurs when the defendant engages in sexual intercourse with a married person. The plaintiff in a breach of promise to marry suit attacks a failure to follow through with an accepted promise of marriage. Seduction, the fourth and final heartbalm tort, involves at least one act of intercourse between the defendant and an unmarried woman, accomplished by way of artifices and persuasions.

A century ago, leading treatises devoted extensive discussion to the amatory torts. Today, these claims barely survive. As of this writing, all but a handful of states have abolished or substantially limited claims for alienation of affections and criminal conversation, and about half of the states have abrogated or pared back claims for breach of promise to marry and seduction. Even where these claims persist, few plaintiffs show much interest in them. With the notable exceptions of Mississippi and North Carolina (both of which have recently entertained a spate of alienation of affections suits), over the past several years very few states have witnessed even a handful of cases implicating any of the heartbalm torts.

Text of footnote 371, which discusses Illinois law:

Act of May 4, 1935, § 1, 1935 Ill. Laws 716, 716 (abolishing claims for alienation of affections, criminal conversation, and breach of promise). In 1946, the Illinois Supreme Court found that this statute, to the extent it abolished claims for alienation of affections, violated a provision in the state constitution declaring an available remedy for all wrongs or injuries suffered. Heck v. Schupp, 68 N.E.2d 464, 466 (Ill. 1946). In response, the state legislature passed new laws that restored these torts but limited plaintiffs to actual economic damages suffered. E.g., Act of July 18, 1947, § 4, 1947 Ill. Laws 796, 797 (reinstating claims for alienation of affections).

Kyle Graham, Why Torts Die, Florida State University Law Review, Vol. 35, No. 2, 2008 : http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1129642#

[Atomicflea]

@Ronald_C.Semone

But to get to the belief system underlying your original question, What is wrong with being a prude? I’m a prude: I don’t think 10-year old girls should dress like whores, I don’t think TV announcers should use foul language, I don’t think ads like the ones you mentioned are approriate.

Nothing’s wrong with being a prude if you enjoy being one, but I don’t want to be so closed in my opinions as to be out of touch with society. I’m open to being convinced of something being acceptable and I’m pretty socially liberal, so I was surprised at how vehement my disapproval of this was.

I think “like whores” and “foul language” are pretty subjective terms. I wore bikinis when I was 10 because I liked bikinis. I work sparkly nail polish and had my ears pierced. I don’t think “damn it” is a curse word and use it liberally in my speech, although I consider myself a lady. Some people would disapprove of any or all of these.

[Cat_Fight]

@Duke

Or put up someone else’s photo, which also happens on regular dating sites.

You can actually check out people in your area quite simply– fill in a few lines about ‘yourself’ including your zip code, use a fake email and voila. Some of the shots are from the neck down, but quite a few are just a bit too candid and, well, unflattering, to be fake (though of course it’s possible).

[kushiel]

@Cat_Fight

I don’t know. Do the aforementioned herpes sores burn less?

This reminds me of the doper, the name escapes me, who has the signature with the following quote from Questionable Content: “The impending herpetic sores are just the body’s braille for a life well-lived.”

[Atomicflea]

@Cat_Fight

You can actually check out people in your area quite simply– fill in a few lines about ‘yourself’ including your zip code, use a fake email and voila. Some of the shots are from the neck down, but quite a few are just a bit too candid and, well, unflattering, to be fake (though of course it’s possible).

I’d be terrified to do this and run across someone I knew. What to do then? Tell their spouse? Keep it to myself? :eek:

[Gwyen]

@WhyNot

No.

What’s this “we”, kemosabe? I see unanimously negative feelings about it here.

Eh, sorry that was a bit to generalized there. I meant the people that think this sort of thing is just fine.

I had this same argument with an acquaintance about this web site. She went on to “prove” her point by say that people now are evolving, that the human race needs to be non-exclusive to survive. Or something…
It makes me angry when people make stupid excuses to justify something that is wrong.

My apologies if any of you wonderful dopers took offense.

[Acsenray]

@Gwyen

It makes me angry when people make stupid excuses to justify something that is wrong.

I think there is a big difference in this kind of situation between saying that this is “wrong” for me or someone I know and on the other hand saying this is wrong for everyone.

Basically, humans have evolved with both fidelity and infidelity being critically important to survival. Fidelity is important largely as an environmental factor, but also infidelity is important largely as a genetic factor.

It’s perfectly valid to say, “Infidelity is wrong for me.” Or “You, my close friend or loved one, should not commit infidelity.”

It’s quite different to say, “The whole world should refrain from infidelity.” Because, frankly, the fact that such a large number of people throughout human history have been unfaithful has been a tremendous advantage to the overall survival of the species.

Each one of us owes our existence to the fact that multiple individuals in our family trees were unfaithful. Without infidelity, none of us would have existed – the world would be populated with entirely different human beings.

So, yeah, I’m not going to avail myself of the services of such a Web site and I would be disappointed to discover that someone I care about has done so. But the rest of the world? Hey, those genes gotta get mixed. Our past and our future is one great orgy of zygotes. It’s to the advantage of the human race as a whole.

[Huerta88]

Eh, the real cheating here may of the punters. I’m not too sure this is any different to the “Lonely Cheating Housewives” spam dressed up a little bit.

Let’s start with the tasteful banner photo of a lovely lass seemingly about to service a guy. But that’s weird, because:

What is the ratio of Female to Male Member Sign Ups?
At present, there are about 8.5 men for every 1.5 women that sign up on the Ashley Madison website system. However, since approximately one out of every 10 men actually purchases credits enabling them to contact female members, the active or probable ratio is closer to 1 - 1.

I would serioiusly question even that 15% number. Then, dudes have to purchase “credits” to contact the women (or, “women”).

Oh, and to avail of the “affair guarantee,” you have to meet any number of onerous (and costly) prerequisites:

Affair Guarantee Program Rules
Under the AshleyMadison.com Affair Guarantee Program, (the “Affair Guarantee Program” or the “Program”) if you don’t find someone within the initial 3 months after purchasing the “Affair Guarantee” Membership Package, we’ll refund you $249, being the amount you paid for participating in the Program (the “Refund”).
The Guarantee Program is available for a limited time only, and open to anyone. Additionally, to be eligible for the Program and the Refund, you must:
Comply at all times with the AshleyMadison.com Terms of Use. By using the AshleyMadison.com website and participating in the Program, you agree to be bound by the AshleyMadison.com Terms of Use.
Pay in full the applicable rate for the “Affair Guarantee” Membership Package which consists of 1000 credits.
Use your “Affair Guarantee” Membership Package to create a profile with a primary photo (public or private). Your profile and primary photo must be approved by AshleyMadison.com within the first 30 days of purchasing your “Affair Guarantee” Membership Package in order for you to be eligible for the Program. Details on approval of your profile and primary photo available at FAQ.
Keep your profile visible at all times during the first 3 months of purchasing your “Affair Guarantee” Membership Package.
Send a “Qualifying” priority mail message to at least 20 different AshleyMadison.com members each month. A “Qualifying Mail Message” must be a priority mail message you send to a unique AshleyMadison.com member who has not yet messaged you or a priority mail message response you send to a unique AshleyMadison.com member who has messaged you. A “Qualifying Mail Message” must be a priority mail message sent through the AshleyMadison.com service and does not include any other method of communicating (such as AshleyMadison.com winks or emails sent outside of the AshleyMadison.com system).
Send at least 5 AshleyGifts per month.
Instant message with members for at least 60 minutes per month through the AshleyMadison.com service.
Adhere to all the steps set out in the Affair Guarantee Program.
Please see the Affair Guarantee FAQ for further information. You may also contact Customer Care at 1-866-370-7011 with any questions related to the Affair Guarantee Program. AshleyMadison.com alone will make all decisions under these Program rules regarding Program policies, including but not limited to Program and Guarantee eligibility.
If, after 3 months of purchasing your Affair Guarantee Membership Package you are eligible for the $249 refund please fill out the “Affair Guarantee Refund Application”. AshleyMadison.com takes considerable interest in the user’s experience with the website and accordingly, you must follow all requirements to obtain the refund. Requests must be made within the earlier of 30 days of Program expiration or 120 days of your purchase of credits under the Program.
The AshleyMadison.com Terms of Use and the Affair Guarantee Program Rules are subject to change by AshleyMadison.com at any time, effective upon posting on the AshleyMadison.com website, and your use of the AshleyMadison.com service and your initial or continued participation in the Affair Guarantee Program after such posting will constitute acceptance by you of such changes. AshleyMadison.com reserves all rights to modify, suspend or cancel the Program at any time and without notice.
Program rules last updated September 15, 2008.

This sounds to me like a higher-tech, sleazier version of a lonelyhearts scam 101. I wouldn’t worry too much that anyone is really hooking up using this idiocy.

[Markxxx]

I think it goes against our senses that we are taught not to cheat, but let’s face it we all do.

It’s just a matter of degree. Just like we all steal, just a matter of degree.

And face it there IS a difference between making an interest free loan from a monopoly bank and cheating to win an election.

But our values, whatever they are, always see things as black and white.