It would indeed be ridiculous, but it’s not unheard of. I suppose there’s a distinction to be made between actively refusing to show ID and simply not possessing ID. Neither one is illegal, but the former is an act of overt defiance (see contempt of cop); cops who are prone to stretch/bend/break the law can respond by making your life difficult, as can cops who have a poor understanding of the limits of their actual authority. Cops know that most arrestees lack the resources or motivation make the cop’s life difficult unless the cop’s misconduct is really excessive. The fellow at my link, for example, dropped his (entirely justified) case against the city when it became clear that his family was suffering for it.
What are those questions they’re forbidden to ask?
What are the laws that prevent cops from striking up conversations with people they meet?
Yes, there are laws against the cops “stopping” people at random for no reason. But “stopping” doesn’t mean chatting with someone, it means detaining them where they are not free to leave.
Seriously? You think a police officer can, for any reason, start questioning you about your marriage? Your religion? Your political views? How about your sex life? Can a cop ask you for your bank routing number? Ask you for you PIN? What bank you use? How much is your income? Did you vote? What’s your bra size?
Seriously? You actually think a police officer can ask any question? Or for no reason start questioning somebody?
Get real.
Yes, a cop can ask you all those things. And you can tell him that you don’t feel like answering those questions, and am I free to go?
My guess with the Circuit City story is that it will wait until a real lawyer (i.e. prosecutor) has reviewed the charges. Either:
(a) the cop will try to deny the person idenfied themselves by name, flasifying evidence and perjury are career-limiting moves
(b) the prosecutor will read the law carefully, eventually drop the charges when he realizes there is no win, and in the wonderful world of law, you hav been subjected to the OJ treatment - not guilty, but it cost you a lot of effort, time, and money to get there. Try to imagine how much the policeman cares.
The only saving grace will be if the prosecutor tells the police chief and the officer in no uncertain terms the financial risk to himself and the municipality of being an asshole who does not grasp the law. OTOH, it’s best if the person does not live there. A pissed off and not rational cop can find a lot of petty legitimate things to harass someone on if they choose, thus creating more legal trouble and the need to document and litigate even more. Most people’s taillights never seem to work when a cop needs a reason to pull you over.
Not legally.
A policeman, or a garbageman, or a balloon-seller, can ask you anything. (Heck, in Law and Order, our source of all legal wisdom, the cops always ask “do you mind if we come in?” If they answer is yes, in they go without a warrant, and anything in plain sight is fair game. They still can’t snoop into drawers or closets without permission or a warrant. if the guy says"no, where’s your warrant?" they don’t go in.)
Where it might be deemed illegal is if it has the appearance of coercion. Or, if the police lied and told you that you had to permit them (again, very much coercion). Similarly, if it appears they are violating, say, anti-discrimination laws by asking you something. “OK, all you homies tell me your names; blond guys are free to go…”
So if the cops cannot ask you “anything” because it is illegal. on what grounds do you assert that?
You said you’re familiar with case law that backs up your view.
Can you share some of that case law?
When would I, as a well off white person, ever need to identify myself to the police?
Since we have a real live officer of the law posting in the topic, why don’t we ask him?
While waiting, here is some case law concerning questioning by police officers.
Yes, that’s exactly what I think.
You say otherwise – that it would violate some law.
What law?
Do any of those cases support any of your claims?
Correct. As long as the person being approached is free to disregard the inquiry and go about his business, the cops, garbage collectors, or balloon sellers can ask you anything without violating the law.
Now, if I’m a garbage collector and I ask someone her bra size, I may find myself fired, because my employers do not like me to sully their name by asking about bras while on the clock, or maybe because they feel I should be picking up garbage instead of chatting up chicks. But that’s not “the law;” that’s internal employer policy.
Or he may actually find out her bra size, they hook up and make little baby garbage collectors. Why does everyone assume the negative consequences.
Of course I can attempt a conversation with someone. Why wouldn’t I be able to?
Did you bother reading any of that?
Answer the question.
You think a police officer can, for any reason, start questioning you about your marriage? Your religion? Your political views? How about your sex life? Can a cop ask you for your bank routing number? Ask you for you PIN? What bank you use? How much is your income? Did you vote? What’s your bra size?
Seriously? You actually think a police officer can ask any question? Or for no reason start questioning somebody?
Is that legal for a police officer, on duty, to start asking anybody? Seriously. You think that is legal?
I should be thinking about the negative consequences more. Just 10 minutes ago I asked a random person, “Can I have a large unsweetened iced tea with lemon?” Apparently I broke some law or something.
Of course it depends on the circumstances; all of these questions could be legitimate or not. “Hi, this is the SD police department. We think we might have found some stuff from when your home got burglarized by the panty-snatcher. What’s your bra size?” is pretty legitimate, for instance. Or a female cop is chatting to another woman and they start talking about fitting bras. Wheras in other circumstances asking about bra size could be part of sexual harassment.
But, assuming it’s harassment, then I wouldn’t be surprised if in some jurisdictions, either by statute or case law, a harasser with power over the victim could be performing an illegal act when a relatively powerless harasser wouldn’t be. And a uniformed police office not only could but probably would be considered to be in the first category, where a garbageman wouldn’t.
So, yes, in some cases, a cop asking certain kinds of questions could be part of a pattern of actions that constitutes a crime, when someone in some (but not all) other professions might be able to do so without it becoming criminal. But that’s not really much of a qualification to the statement that police are free to ask anyone any question for no reason.
Of course. So could a dentist. What law says a person can’t ask those questions?