Am I missing something here? (re: reopening of bars, etc... now)

[DSeid]

@bump

the article doesn’t address is whether or not those kids are spreading it more readily in Sweden than Finland to adults.

Did you bother to read what was posted? Again:

@SayTwo

… no increased risk for teachers

And in the thread devoted to the Opening Schools subject was a comparison of the rates of COVID-19 among teachers/staff of in-person schools in the U.K. versus the general population there over that time. No increases risk. Lower in fact.

@bump

the kids- we know that they don’t necessarily get sick even though they can spread it like crazy.

“Can”? Sure it is not impossible for there to be an elementary school aged child who is an effective transmitter and one can find an anecdote or even case report that shows such is possible. But the evidence is OVERWHELMING at this point that as a general rule, even with large amounts in their noses, THEY DO NOT “spread it like crazy”.

@Joey_P

Older children and adolescents appear to be able to transmit SARS-CoV-2 effectively [51,56-59].

(mind you, young kids may spread it less, but teens (ie high school/college kids) spread it at least as much as adults).

There is no question that teens are more like adults than are young children in this regard, but the cherry-picking of information like this and the extrapolation to opening any school is reckless no matter how much harm keeping them shut causes is part of the push back that occurs, which then gets painted with brushstrokes way too broad.

The group of citation 51 published this as well, covered by the NYT here … in short it was “ooops”.

additional data from the research team now calls that conclusion into question; it’s not clear who was infecting whom … Some of the household members who appeared in the initial report to have been infected by older children in fact were exposed to the virus at the same time as the children. All of them may have been infected by contacts they shared.

In fact from the article itself, only one case of child to household was found -

… one pair of paediatric COVID-19 index case-secondary case were identified, giving an SAR of 0.5% …

… We found that the SAR from children to household members was low …

FUNNY that the follow up is noted so rarely.

Citation 56 is a case report of AN overnight camp that cannot determine what the directionality was, an adult superspreader to many kids or between kids, and has to be taken in context of the many many other overnight camps without outbreaks.

Citation 57:

Some countries with relatively large class sizes in primary schools (e.g. Chile and Israel) reported sizeable outbreaks in some of those schools, though the amount of transmission occurring in these schools (vs. outside) is not clear from current reports

Not supportive of your claim.

58? Just a report that there were outbreaks in a handful of crowded Israeli High Schools.

Finally, citation 59 gives some of the evidence that High Schoolers can spread effectively while documenting clearly that younger children DO NOT. The incident was discussed here as well:

Arnaud Fontanet, an epidemiologist at the Pasteur Institute, and his colleagues started an investigation in Crépy-en-Valois in late March to see whether they could piece together the virus’ reach in the town and its schools. In the high school, antibody testing showed that 38% of pupils, 43% of teachers, and 59% of nonteaching staff had been infected. (By then, several people associated with the school had been hospitalized with COVID-19 complications.) In six elementary schools, they found a total of three children who had caught the virus, likely from family members, and then attended school while infected. But, as far as the researchers could tell, those younger children didn’t pass the virus on to any close contacts.

Bolding mine. Interesting though that most of the spread seemed to be between the teachers and the staff and that the rates among the students (who had the most contacts with students, yes?) was LOWER, and in the actual article, the rate in their household members was lower yet.

The IAR was highest among the high school staff, teachers and pupils, and much lower among the
parents and siblings of pupils

“Shall I keep going?”

Offer only devil or the deep blue sea and some may side with the deep blue sea.