Am I simply screwed? (4+ y/o 'unpaid' bill)

Factual Questions
1

I shall keep it as short and sweet as possible. I expect this is something I will have to suck up, but before I do, I am asking the advice of those who may know more than I.

I started receiving phone calls in August/September of 2007, from ‘Debt Recovery Solutions, LLC’ from a very aggressive and nasty call agent, insisting that I owe them an amount from unpaid phone bills that were due on a Verizon account from September/October 2003.

During that time there was a Verizon account in my name, however, I closed it in October of 2003. I requested and paid the final bill, at the time of closing the account. I never heard another word, and had no reason to believe all was not fine. I received no bills, no notices, and there was no mark on my credit report.

However, this Debt Collection agency insists that I owe this amount for two months’ of unpaid phone bills from 2003. I have no receipts that date back that far (I moved at least six times in a handful of years, a lot of things were lost in the shuffle, such as receipts and old checks. If any bills were sent, my addresses were always updated, and my father was living at the address of the billing address on the account, and said there were no bills sent), any bank accounts that I may have had at the time are nonexistent and have been for years, and I paid most of my bills with Money Orders at the time because I was struggling in a rural region and had no ready access to a checking account.

They call me at all hours of the day and night, and are incredibly rude. I work during the night shift, and this is disrupting my sleep, and my nerves are on edge from dealing with them.

Do I simply pay up to shut them up? They are threatening to put the mark on my credit report for this, now, four and a half years after the fact.

Also, when I spoke with them in August/September, I requested information in writing and said that I disputed the debt. They said they would send me something in writing, but it would take ‘up to 8 weeks’.

I received the letter only today, dated February 14, 2008. A bit more than 8 weeks. The calls, which had stopped, have also started again. The amount they claim I owe in the letter is different than the amount on the bill. They sent a letter claiming,

*"Dear Verizon Customer:

Please be advised that the actual balance due on your account may not be the balance referenced on printed bill copies. Accounts which have been disconnected no longer continue to receive updated billing. Any adjustments, payments, or charges which occur after an account has entered the collections process wil not be reflected on archived bill copies."*

So, they are saying that they can charge me more and not have to show proof of those charges, but I have to show proof that I paid? The amount on the bill is $103.12. The amount they are claiming I owe is $142.24. The telephone service was voluntarily disconnected by me. I disconnected the service because I was no longer going to be living at the residence.

Just in case it is of any pertinence, the state of my residence is VT.

Anyway, I appreciate any advice or comment. However, if the only advice is to ‘talk to a lawyer’, the amount which the bill is for is probably less than any amount I would need to end up spending in legal counsel. About $150 is not a lot of money in the general scope of things, but we are scraping for every dime at the moment, and $150 to spend on nothing like this is just not within my means, if I have any kind of recourse.

Thanks in advance.

2

Read up on debtor’s rights. You can almost certainly make them provide proof of your “debt”, and stop calling on the phone and do everything via mail.

3

You can request that they only communicate with you by mail, and you can request proof of the debt (which they probably don’t have).

If the debt is yours, then pay it. If it isn’t, then dispute it and get it removed from your credit report.

4

I have read (for what it’s worth) that you should direct them to correspond with you only through your attorney. Give them a valid address of someone other than yourself who will notify you if in fact correspondence is received. Usually they won’t bother you anymore, but if they do, you’re no worse off.

5

Thanks for the helpful link.

I think the points I need to examine further are:

  1. I requested validation of the debt over the telephone at the first phone call they gave me. They waited nearly six months to respond in writing.

  2. They are only providing ‘proof’ of a bill that totals 103.12, not the 142 and change they claim I owe. If I cannot provide proof of my payment, I may have to suck it up and pay the amount detailed on the bill, but unless they provide me with proof of the other 39$ and change, they should not be able to charge me for it.

This is actually the first piece of paper correspondence I have received at all about the matter.

6

This is true only if that person is an attorney, AFAIK.

Send them a letter stating that you dispute the debt and will not pay, absent legal process. I suggest you send 2 copies, one 1st class mail, the other certified. The other way to go is to agree to pay an amount = to the actual bill, IF and only if they agree, in writing, to give you a clean bill of health re Credit Reports.

IANAL

7

There’s nothing stopping you from suggesting that you’re represented. You would only need to retain an actual attorney if the collector actually attempts to correspond (which they likely won’t, not being interested in the hassle).

The standard advice is be very careful about paying, because this amounts to a tacit admission of responsibility, and also restarts the clock on the time limits for collection.

8

As other people say, you are entitled to request that they stop calling you. If you make the request in writing, there’s a good chance it will be honored.

The next thing to keep in mind is that telephone service is a regulated industry. So there is almost certainly an administrative agency you can complain to about this bill, if you think it is incorrect. Believe it or not, these agencies are often quite good at going to bat for consumers.

I would start with the Vermont Public Service Board.

9

  1. The law stops someone from representing themselves as an attorney, unless they are. I’ll leave it to our legal dopers to say whether or no you putting in writing that somebody is your attorney when they are not is legal.

  2. No, it doesnt. Read the many threads here in GQ on this very point. However, sometimes it does erroneously restart the clock.

10

This sounds like something of a scam, albeit legal, consisting of companies buying old debt records for pennies on the dollar, then badgering customers to pay the full amount. These companies are known for pursuing old debts well past the statute of limitations for collection, although in this case the statutory limit probably has not yet passed.

If I read the OP’s posts correctly, the credit agency has not shown proof of anything. A letter stating that someone owes a certain amount is not proof of debt. Something closer to proof would be a facsimile of a Verizon bill from the stated period, showing an amount corresponding to what the credit agency claims is owed. It is extemely unlikely that the agency can produce such evidence.

As others have said, send a certified letter, return receipt requested, politely stating that to the best of your knowledge you do not owe the debt they are claiming, and that all further correspondence must be carried out via postal mail.

If you believe that you do not owe the amount, do not under any circumstances pay them anything, as they are likely to come up with other, equally spurious ‘debts’.

11

First, send them a debt validation letter. Here is a sample, or just google it and you will find a plethora of sample letters.

Chances are, they will not be able to provide the requested info, in which case they will have to leave you alone. It’s worked for me several times.

Also, chances are that the statute of limitations on your debt is up, depending on what state you live in. So they wouldn’t be able to take you to court. Here’s a site where you can look up your state: http://www.fair-debt-collection.com/statue-limitations.html

12

Just a bit more info… there’s tons of resources on the net, and I did a lot of research when I was going through the same thing.

From here: Diy Credit Repair - Fix your credit - Free tips & education

This message board also has a lot of good info: http://creditboards.com/forums/index.php

13

I had a very similar situation with an old Sprint account I had in college. It was before the whole “take your number with you” thing was in effect. I was moving. It made no sense to have a long-distance cell-phone number. So I cancelled the account.

A few years later while processing loan paperwork on our now current house there was some random weirdness on my credit report. I was pretty sure I shouldn’t have owed Sprint anything else, so I was curious what debt they sold to the collection agency. Sprint couldn’t find any record of my original account. So I contacted the collection agency to ask them about it in a “Show me where you’re getting your numbers and I have no problem paying you.” kind of way. They took my information and said they’d mail me whatever they had. The weirdness disappeared from my credit report without challenge, instead.

Be cooperative, but clear that you’re not going to accept that you legitimately owe anyone any money until they can explain where they’re getting their figures. Verify whatever they send you with Verizon customer service. If Verizon can’t (or simply doesn’t) confirm what the collection agency says, tell that the next time they call. “I haven’t been able to verify with Verizon that this debt is legitimate. What else do you have?” The ball is in their court at that point and it’s pretty hard to make the case for collection activities v. harassment when they’re the one’s holding up the process. (which, BTW, is probably why they left you alone while they found the letter they sent you on the 14th).

14

They did send me a bill from Verizon. It is a copy of the last bill I should have received. But the amount on the bill does not match the amount that they say I owe, which is why I am suspicious.

I spoke to a rep on the phone, six months ago. I said I disputed the debt. They repeated back to me, ‘You are disputing this debt?’ I said ‘Yes’.

The woman said they would send me proof of the debt in writing, within up to 8 weeks. Six months later, this letter and a copy of the last bill I had from 2003 show up, along with a note that says the balance may not match what I ‘owe’ because disconnected services may still accrue charges yet do not have balance updates. Which seems fishy.

If I called and had the line disconnected on X date, and requested a final bill, why do they not have a final statement of what they say is the total amount? How could I possibly accrue more charges after disconnection?

I still do not understand why I was never contacted by Verizon even once, nor were any bills sent to the address the account was registered under. Since I cannot prove that I sent them payment (IE, a check receipt, etc), if I end up being under burden of proof responsible for the amount on the bill, I will pay it. But I am not paying this imaginary 40-ish$ charge that does not appear on the bill they provided.

From what I understand, I assume this bill copy is legitimate enough proof that I need to pay them, but I should only be obligated to pay the amount on the bill, not any other amount they make up, justifying it with a letter.

My best bet may be to say I can pay ‘X’ amount right now to clear the debt, if they will accept that, rather than drag it out over a number of months.

My family is in extremely dire straits right now financially (long, long, LONG story, the past three months have been Hell), and though I cannot really afford to fork over nearly 150$ just to make them go away, if they will accept a lesser sum it might be worth it just to not have to deal with the stress.

Appreciate the help offered thus far, from all parties. I will look into some of the suggestions posed before I actually do anything. Thanks for making things at least a bit easier on me.

I don’t post much, but the board is a lifesaver at times.

15

I was about to say, “Leah M? Where the heck has she been?” Stick around more kiddo, the day-walkers around here already contribute enough, I want to see more of us third-shifters. Also, turn on your personal messages so I don’t have to hijack your threads.

[/hijack]

16

Silly me, I wasn’t aware they were turned off. I’m so much a reader and not so much a poster. I shall have to rectify that.

17

I had a similar situation- I told the collection agency guy to have the company send me a bill showing me the exact bill I supposedly owe them and if legit I would gladly pay, and have not heard back from them since. Just out of curiosity, I periodically call the collection agency to check the status, and they say they have not heard back from the company and won’t bother me again until they do. So its either a scam, or they cannot prove what charges are owed, and they know they have to do so if requested, but obviously thought it was worth throwing out there to see if I would send them a check no questions asked.

18

They may be asking more because of their fee to collect the debt, which is legal in my state.

My then-teenaged, awash-in-hormone son signed up for a $5/minute porn service. They called… they called… I kept stringing it along, hoping he’d start his first job and take it out of his first paycheck.

Finally, I got tired and offered to settle (they wanted 60%, I stood firm on 50%). Try that tactic. If you do, get an offer in writing, get the name and badge number of the person to whom you spoke. They “forgot” the offer to settle and kept calling for awhile.

As a side note, my company just got contacted to settle a bill of the same vintage (some $23,000, I believe) by a debt collection agency. We turned it over to our own high-priced lawyers.

19

Why can’t you call Verizon to check if you had failed to pay something?

20

Along with my brother and another family member I’m partners in a property management company. I don’t handle tenants whatsoever (aside from knowing what our standard lease looks like, I’ve never spoken to one of our tenants, or been the one to deal with tenant issues) but even if you genuinely owe this money, you probably should not pay it.

We have had many people leave without paying their last month’s rent. We’ve collected from these people almost never. They clearly had a legal obligation to pay last month’s rent and simply did not do so. The simple truth of the matter is unless someone is willing to take you to court, they have no way whatsoever to compel you to pay off a debt. If you’re truly scraping for money, do not pay this debt. Legally you are quite possibly in the wrong, if you are–don’t worry about it. We regularly do not litigate over hundreds of dollars more because it is not worth our time (and there’s always security deposits–which legally cannot function as last month’s rent but they do provide us with some level of protection.)

This isn’t legal advice, it’s just what I would do from your perspective. My company has been in the position of having debtors that clearly owed us money and we’ve had to just write it off as bad debt many times, there’s nothing else to be done over small amounts of money.

Every state is different but some states I know your debts become “uncollectable” after something like five years–there’s a website you can probably find through google which will give info for your state. Once that date has passed you can’t be sued for the amount of the debt and the collection agency then has more or less no way to collect from you.

I also wouldn’t fear the credit report hit too much either.