Amazon, Walmart, Target strike

[Chessic_Sense]

@Tamerlane

Really? If you’re not just being disingenuous, I gotta color myself more than a little shocked. I thought everyone knew( generally )what a “scab” was and why it was considered negative. Even the people who thoroughly disagree with the concept.

But then I have no idea how old you are or how/where you were brought up. Anyone of my generation( Gen X )who lived in the Rust Belt and wasn’t from a fairly upper-class background should have been exposed to the idea.

It’s not new or surprising that some people dislike scabs. It’s that the word itself is supposed to be an insult. That’s new to me. Some people really hate the Catholic church and therefore hate priests. But the word priest itself isn’t pejorative.

So when the OP says “Remember that if you cross a picket line you’re a fucking scab,” it sounds to me like “Remember that if you graduate seminary and take Holy Orders you’re a fucking priest.” I’m like “yeah, that’s…kinda the definition of the word.”

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

How far do you take that lack of understanding? If you found out that your seafood supplier was selling fish caught by slaves, would you be baffled at customers who stopped buying that fish?

Slavery is immoral and illegal. That’s something one is compelled to oppose. A labor dispute isn’t immoral or illegal. I’m not compelled to support one side or the other, any more than I’m compelled to support your or your parents when you’re in some family tiff with them.

How am I supposed to support the workers’ quest for higher pay when I don’t even know what they make in the first place?

[quote=“Broomstick, post:48, topic:852954”]

Really? I remember my parents wouldn’t cross pick lines to patronize businesses with strikers back in the early 1970’s

I didn’t say they couldn’t care or wouldn’t care. I said this is the first time I’m hearing they ought to care. Like they should be compelled to pick a side.

@Broomstick

Sure, why would you care whether or not other human beings are treated humanely? :rolleyes:

Why am I to believe they’re being treated inhumanely in the first place? When teachers strike in a state halfway across the country, how am I expected to know the first thing about their workplace situation? When athletes strike/lockout while negotiating a new collective bargaining agreement, am I supposed to argue for how many games they play a season or what roolie contracts should have as a minimum?

[quote=“Joey_P, post:54, topic:852954”]

Scab has never been a positive thing. Ignoring any feelings about any particular picket line, if you take a job at a place with workers on strike, you take away their bargaining ability.

Right, but if we’re “ignoring any feelings about any particular picket line,” then we’re also, by force, ignoring any feelings about if you take away their bargaining ability. For scab to be negative, you have to assume we do in fact care about the particular picket line.

@Joey_P

If I treat my workers like garbage and pay them nothing so they strike, they’re counting on me not being able to fire them. If I can bring in scabs, I have no use for the people that don’t want to work.

Right. So? Sucks for those workers. Great for the scabs. There’s a winner, there’s a loser. What’s your point? I’m not being rhetorical here; I feel like your post is one sentence too short.

@Joey_P

It’s more like finding a way to help the opposing team win. Sure, you might not really care, but the people in your community might be annoyed with you if they find out you bought the away team lots of fancy training equipment.

You’re missing the point of the analogy. The point is there is no opposing team because there is no my-team. The home team isn’t even from my state. Either team could be the opposing team. Or both could. I have no idea what the rules of the sport are.

[bobot]

What kind of danger is posed to these store employees? Here’s one:
A town in Oklahoma mandated that face masks be worn by customers in stores. Certain large foreheadded customers who refused to wear masks started making threats against store employees. The city’s response? “Oh, OK, you don’t have to wear the masks after all, jeez.”
"A city in Oklahoma that had required everyone to wear a face mask when going inside a business has decided to change that rule after store employees were threatened with violence by people who refused to cover their nose and mouth. “In the short time beginning on May 1, 2020, that face coverings have been required for entry into stores/restaurants, store employees have been threatened with physical violence and showered with verbal abuse,” Stillwater City Manager Norman McNickle said in a statement. One of those involved a threat using a firearm despite “clear medical evidence that face coverings helps contain the spread of COVID-19.”

A City in Oklahoma Ends Face Mask Requirement After Store Employees Were...

So, I guess, fuck the safety of the stre employees. God damn, right wingers, you are shit on top of shit, filled with shit and encrusted with an outer layer of shit.
Go ahead, tell me these weren’t right wingers. And fuck off while you’re at it.

[Monty]

Okalahoma. Gee, I wonder who carried that state in the 2016 election. Not really; there’s no doubt in my mind.

[Miller]

It’s that the word itself is supposed to be an insult. That’s new to me.

You couldn’t figure out that “scab” is a pejorative all on your own?

That’s really remarkably dim of you.

[Broomstick]

@Chessic_Sense

Why am I to believe they’re being treated inhumanely in the first place? When teachers strike in a state halfway across the country, how am I expected to know the first thing about their workplace situation?

Some of us maintain some knowledge of the world around us and how other people are treated. It’s even easier to do these days than in prior generations.

Clearly, you are a child of privilege. Those people who aren’t are much more aware that the people exploiting their neighbors today may be exploiting them much more directly tomorrow.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Chessic_Sense

When teachers strike in a state halfway across the country, how am I expected to know the first thing about their workplace situation?

Google is your motherfucking friend.

[septimus]

Hats off to Dopers, especially Left Hand of Darkness who retain faith in meaningful social justice. Perhaps there still is hope for America.

Sorry that I have little to offer in the way of help or even advice.

@Chessic_Sense

It’s not new or surprising that some people dislike scabs. It’s that the word itself is supposed to be an insult. That’s new to me…

Slavery is immoral and illegal. That’s something one is compelled to oppose. A labor dispute isn’t immoral or illegal. I’m not compelled to support one side or the other, …

In today’s America, many people are grateful even for low-paying jobs. When they complain, it’s usually a good guess that they really are mistreated.

I’m surprised that you didn’t know “scab” was pejorative. Is English your first language?

[By about 1450, ‘scab’ had] the common definition we know today, a hard crust that forms over a wound.

By the 1500s, it had taken on a secondary meaning in England. As a slang insult for a “mean, low, ‘scurvy’ fellow; a rascal, scoundrel,” it drew a connection between that person and scabs – and the diseases and sores that lead to them (syphilis, for example) – and, by extension, bad habits and unclean lifestyles.

By the late 1700s, laborers adopted the insult to refer to workmen who wouldn’t join a strike, a union, or take part in organized labor. One of the earliest known recordings is from 1777: “the Conflict would not been [sic] so sharp had not there been so many dirty Scabs; no Doubt but timely Notice will be taken of them." Early in the next century, “scab” [was] applied specifically to workers who crossed picket lines to take the place of striking workers …

In Household Words, Stephanie Smith draws a clear line from the one definition to the other: From blemish … to strikebreaker, the history of the word scab … shows a displacement of meaning from the visceral or physical to the moral register … Just as a scab is a physical lesion, the strikebreaking scab disfigures the social body of labor—both the solidarity of workers and the dignity of work.
Smith also points out that the term has mellowed some … Its power seems to have diminished a bit since the days when a piece of union literature, generally attributed to author **Jack London, said: “After God finished the rattlesnake, the toad, the vampire, He had some awful substance left with which He made a scab … When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the Devil shuts the gates of Hell to keep him out. No man has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with.”**They don’t make insults quite like that anymore.

[actualliberalnotoneofthose]

I went in and got my $40/hr with little exertion and great social distancing. My kids need to eat. Pit me. I don’t give a fuck.

[Chessic_Sense]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

Google is your motherfucking friend.

You can’t Google how much they motherfucking make or what their motherfucking healthcare plans cost or how many motherfucking sick days they get, nor do I motherfucking care to. Guess I’m supposed to care about the NFL collective bargaining agreement, the Writers Guild’s contracts, or Verizon’s employment benefits.

According to Verizon, employees received $130,000 a year in wages and benefits. Union leaders claimed that the average total was $74,000 a year. Verizon offered workers a 7.5 percent salary increase. Union leaders responded by stating that the increase would be negated because workers would have to pay an increased amount for deductibles and premiums, prescriptions, and co-pays

Scintillating! I’m riveted! Tell me more!
Look, I get it. You’re so far to the left that you think all workers are exploited proletariat, so you don’t bother to look any closer at any details, even when a strike is just a mundane fight over a paltry amount. You love a picket line, any picket line, and it doesn’t matter whose.

[Chessic_Sense]

@actualliberalnotoneofthose

I went in and got my $40/hr with little exertion and great social distancing. My kids need to eat. Pit me. I don’t give a fuck.

How dare you think about your family at a time like this.

[epbrown01]

@actualliberalnotoneofthose

I went in and got my $40/hr with little exertion and great social distancing. My kids need to eat. Pit me. I don’t give a fuck.

@Chessic_Sense

How dare you think about your family at a time like this.

Actually, I DO sort of hate that line, though I think actual liberal was half-joking.

People tend to throw out “for my kids/family” when they want to rationalize screwing over someone else’s kids/family. Last Week Tonight had a clip of Alex Jones talking about when the apocalypse comes in a few years, he’ll kill his neighbors and feed them to his kids because “I’m not gonna let my daughters starve!” Okay. But if his neighbor thinks the same way where are we?

[bobot]

That fucking psycho is a dad?

[septimus]

@bobot

That fucking psycho is a dad?

Don’t forget that Jones defended himself in a lawsuit by saying that his whole psycho act is a sham, comedy. Yes, this is the same psycho-comedian that POTUS telephoned regularly for advice on policy.

[Leaper]

Didn’t his lawyers say that, but he said on the stand that he was genuine, or something like that?

Anyway, regardless of what actualliberal did/said, maybe anyone who took that point of view could take a moment to ponder the system that made strike breaking necessary, from the origins of the strike to the threat of starvation that led the scabs, and feel the need to do something about it.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Chessic_Sense

You can’t Google how much they motherfucking make or what their motherfucking healthcare plans cost or how many motherfucking sick days they get, nor do I motherfucking care to.

Only that last part is true. You’re an apathetic asshole, news at eleven.

[Chessic_Sense]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

Only that last part is true. You’re an apathetic asshole, news at eleven.

Oh, yeah, I’m such an asshole because I’d never heard an esoteric word used with the connotation it’s been used here. It’s taken me all these years to hear a hyper-specific word with that exact context, I’m such a terrible person.

Behold the aging hippy, ladies and gentlemen. He demands your allegiance in his crusade du jour and if you’re not on board, you’re an asshole. He shouldn’t even have to lift a finger to convince you of the logic of his position, such as there is one. His only attempt is “Believe my ideology now, or Google things until you do, or else you’re an asshole.” I can feel the pathos from here.

You’re doing a great job, LHOD. Keep up the good work.

[aruvqan]

@bobot

What kind of danger is posed to these store employees? Here’s one:
A town in Oklahoma mandated that face masks be worn by customers in stores. Certain large foreheadded customers who refused to wear masks started making threats against store employees. The city’s response? “Oh, OK, you don’t have to wear the masks after all, jeez.”
"A city in Oklahoma that had required everyone to wear a face mask when going inside a business has decided to change that rule after store employees were threatened with violence by people who refused to cover their nose and mouth. “In the short time beginning on May 1, 2020, that face coverings have been required for entry into stores/restaurants, store employees have been threatened with physical violence and showered with verbal abuse,” Stillwater City Manager Norman McNickle said in a statement. One of those involved a threat using a firearm despite “clear medical evidence that face coverings helps contain the spread of COVID-19.”

A city in Oklahoma ends face mask requirement after store employees were threatened.
So, I guess, fuck the safety of the stre employees. God damn, right wingers, you are shit on top of shit, filled with shit and encrusted with an outer layer of shit.
Go ahead, tell me these weren’t right wingers. And fuck off while you’re at it.

Wonder what the mouth breathers would do if the manager went hard line and opted to close down, posting something about keeping his workers safe from people refusing to wear masks [fully intending to reopen in a week or something once his point had been gotten across. Didn’t read the article, but if it was a small town like Caledonia NY with 1 whole IGA for groceries, if the IGA shut down people would be shit out of luck for getting groceries. Not to say it is a small town, but there are people who really do not leave town at all - my brother went away to college, came back and lived here the rest of his life [until I had the ambulance haul him to Rochester when he stopped breathing …] If the IGA shut down, there would be panic in the streets. Though our town is very careful to mask and glove up, haven’t heard anybody complaining about it. We had a lovely day last week with everybody hanging out in the drive ways yelling at each other over picnic lunches =) [my street has all of 10 houses on it and is a couple hundred feet long.]

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Chessic_Sense

Oh, yeah, I’m such an asshole because I’d never heard an esoteric word used with the connotation it’s been used here. It’s taken me all these years to hear a hyper-specific word with that exact context, I’m such a terrible person.

Both parts are true–you were unable to figure out that “scab” is not a term of endearment, and you’re fucking awful–but they’re not related.

Behold the aging hippy, ladies and gentlemen. He demands your allegiance in his crusade du jour and if you’re not on board, you’re an asshole. He shouldn’t even have to lift a finger to convince you of the logic of his position, such as there is one. His only attempt is “Believe my ideology now, or Google things until you do, or else you’re an asshole.” I can feel the pathos from here.

You’re doing a great job, LHOD. Keep up the good work.

Why thanks, I am! Over the last couple of years, I’ve helped our union local increase membership by an astonishing 50%, and I’ve gotten folks to rallies, and I’ve helped get new statewide leadership in place, and we’ve helped break the back of the Republican supermajority in our state house. I’m pretty proud of my work.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

But I came back to this thread, not to deal with Chessic’s weird petulance, but to post a criticism of Amazon from an unexpected source:

Tim Bray, a well known senior engineer and Vice President at Amazon has “quit in dismay” because Amazon has been “firing whistleblowers who were making noise about warehouse employees frightened of Covid-19.” In an open letter on his website, Bray, who has worked at the company for nearly six years, called the company “chickenshit” for firing and disparaging employees who have organized protests. He also said the firings are “designed to create a climate of fear.”

This is a dude with a lot to lose and nothing personal to gain through a public resignation and bridge burning.

[asahi]

@bobot

So, I guess, fuck the safety of the stre employees. God damn, right wingers, you are shit on top of shit, filled with shit and encrusted with an outer layer of shit.

Go ahead, tell me these weren’t right wingers. And fuck off while you’re at it.

I was vilified for saying it, but I feel even more right about it than I did a few weeks ago: I hope coronavirus hits shit kicker land hard so that they can see up close the consequences of their stupidity. It’s the only way people are going to get it and change for the better.

Obviously, if we could learn in a less painful way, that would be ideal and preferable to my ‘solution’. But humans are stupid anyway, and right wingers are particularly slow.

It might cruel to say the above, but the way I look at it, it’s about which one of us gets out of this alive: those of us who genuinely try to be good citizens out of respect for our neighbors, essential employees, first responders, and healthcare workers, or backwoods shit-ass scumbags who want to make a political statement about the preservation of their own little fucked up version of what America should be.