America,all fur coat and no panties.

[dangermom]

and if you lose your job its pretty devastating.

Just checking to see if you realize that Americans can get unemployment money from the gov’t. For example, my mom is currently being paid $450/week without a job; she was laid off a couple of months ago. Of course that won’t last forever (it goes for a year) and she has to be looking for a new job, but no one is starving. IIRC one gets 80% of employed income, up to a certain amount.

I find it totally stunning that she is getting so much money. My husband runs a start-up, and we’ve hit a rocky patch, so there’s no income and hasn’t been for a while. You don’t get unemployment for that, so we’re eating a lot of oatmeal and there won’t be any fun lessons for the kids this summer. Don’t think we’re starving either, though; our church will be giving us food (as it will to anyone who needs it). I’d feel wealthy if someone gave me that much money.

[Hippy_Hollow]

I’m one data point, but I lived and spent my childhood/adolescence in the UK - not solely on military bases, but it villages and towns such as Standlake, Oxon, and Hopton, Norfolk. So in many ways we could get a little America on base but we more or less grew up acculturated in Britain.

There was a ton of racism in the UK in the 1970s and 1980s. Here in America, too, but I’d never been called “wog” or “jungle bunny” over here. Yes, I’ve had a racial slur here and there, but if you were a person of color in the 1970s and 1980s it was almost casual in Britain, whereas in the US people are shocked if you deal with that kind of abuse in shopping centres, etc.

But I will say that the Brits that we met one-on-one tended to be the warmest, most giving people on earth. Especially older Brits who remembered the war - we would have people in the village stop by and say hello, and share a story about a Yank they knew years ago.

I left the UK in 1986 and I’ve been back three times, each time staying with friends and family. Not so much a tourist but more of a homecoming. Hands down, I think the NHS is a great social net. Most of my friends are professionals but still get most of their care on the National Health. You also have much better public transport, from buses to trains. Regionally we have hotspots - Boston, NYC , Chicago - but most Americans need cars because public transport is so poor. Then again, we’re much bigger. As a lad I’d have thought traveling from Oxford to London as an epic commute - I have colleagues who commute that distance daily.

I think it’s much easier to make a living and the cost of living is much lower in America. Most of my professional friends would love to come over to America and live for that reason (of course, home, family, etc. factor heavily). I’m probably the opposite - I would love to live in the UK but I don’t know if I could afford to. It’s really expensive, especially for what we consider to be middle-class living.

I do agree you see much more vivid extremes here in America - appallingly poor and appallingly rich, but those are the tails of the distribution. But social and educational mobility make coming from meager beginnings much more possible. Having compared notes to friends who did O and A levels to get into uni, I know there’s no way in hell I would have gotten into a prestigious uni in the UK - but I did here in America. And that’s not to dismiss the myriad problems we have here with racial/socioeconomic/immigrant bias and discrimination, but I do think bright, hardworking people have the best shot of “making it” here than virtually anyplace in the world - regardless of where you come from.

I think the flag-waving thing is quite interesting. I remember Morrissey getting tons of stick about wrapping himself in the Union Jack in the 90s, and while there are plenty of kooks who like to cloak themselves in the stars and stripes, fire automatic weapons, and wear camouflage, they’re outliers. I have a fairly neutral view of the flag, trending towards the positive.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Hippy_Hollow

There was a ton of racism in the UK in the 1970s and 1980s. Here in America, too, but I’d never been called “wog” or “jungle bunny” over here.

Your church would never have been bombed over there, though. Nor would you have been tossed out of a university for being black.

[Hippy_Hollow]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Your church would never have been bombed over there, though. Nor would you have been tossed out of a university for being black.

Church bombings in the 1970s and 1980s in America were quite rare, I’m sure. Horrible, terrorizing, but rare. Just like IRA bombings were - only I certainly lived in much greater fear of being in a bombing in the shopping centre than having my church bombed.

I’m certainly not trying to have a “your country is worse/better” discussion here. My point was that there was an ugly, casual racism that I lived through - and my Asian friends, too - that I didn’t encounter here in the US.

All of the events you’re referring to occurred in the 1960s, a time of terrific social upheaval in the US. I can ask my older relatives about beatings and burnings of homes of newly arrived West Indians in England in the 1950s, though. I’ve heard plenty of those stories.

[Cisco]

@Hippy_Hollow

I’m certainly not trying to have a “your country is worse/better” discussion here.

Yeah, but lots of other people are.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Hippy_Hollow

Church bombings in the 1970s and 1980s in America were quite rare, I’m sure. Horrible, terrorizing, but rare. Just like IRA bombings were - only I certainly lived in much greater fear of being in a bombing in the shopping centre than having my church bombed.

Well, sure, but IRA bombings didn’t have anything to do with you being black. Obviously, that doesn’t make them any more pleasant, but you were referring specifically to racial tensions.

I can’t really say I disagree with you, on the whole, though; there’s certainly much more anti-South Asian racism in Britain (which is not all that surprising since there are many more South Asians in Britain).

I’ve certainly never been called a Paki here or been told to go “home”.

[Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Cisco was referring specifically to how often we play the national anthem (ie., way more than other countries).

Well, I guess we do at that. It’s funny that we play the national anthem at baseball games, but AFAIK not for any other major or national league games. And in terms of the actual physical waving or showing of flags, we have that more than other countries for sure. Does the national flag anywhere else flutter above all the public schools? OTOH it’s just part of the background noise here, IMO. I don’t run into that “America Rulez”, index finger held aloft attitude very much. Most Americans I talk to are more moderate in their judgment of the country. Most are glad of the opportunities that exist, but concede serious flaws and drawbacks as have been mentioned here. These days I’d say non-First World immigrants are the most effusive in their praise and support; the lack of national health insurance doesn’t mean as much when you come from Haiti or Afghanistan.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus

Well, I guess we do at that. It’s funny that we play the national anthem at baseball games, but AFAIK not for any other major or national league games.

They do it before NFL games and at NHL games (well, they play O Canada at NHL games too).

[MPB_in_Salt_Lake]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

They do it before NFL games and at NHL games (well, they play O Canada at NHL games too).

NBA games as well…

[Telemark]

Right, but other than MLB, NBA, NFL, and the NHL, we barely play it at all.

Oh, and NASCAR.

[Labrador_Deceiver]

@Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus

Well, I guess we do at that. It’s funny that we play the national anthem at baseball games, but AFAIK not for any other major or national league games. And in terms of the actual physical waving or showing of flags, we have that more than other countries for sure. Does the national flag anywhere else flutter above all the public schools? OTOH it’s just part of the background noise here, IMO. I don’t run into that “America Rulez”, index finger held aloft attitude very much. Most Americans I talk to are more moderate in their judgment of the country. Most are glad of the opportunities that exist, but concede serious flaws and drawbacks as have been mentioned here. These days I’d say non-First World immigrants are the most effusive in their praise and support; the lack of national health insurance doesn’t mean as much when you come from Haiti or Afghanistan.

I saw more Maple leaves in Canada than I ever see stars & stripes in the US. Well, other than on holidays & immediately after 9/11. When I was last in Geneva there were entire streets where the Swiss Cross was flown every 50 to 100 feet or so.

I think the perception of the US as a flag waving country has clouded reality a bit.

[foolsguinea]

@Cisco

Being majorly fucked if you lose your job . . . yeah, it’s a bit of an issue at the moment but we have things like welfare, food stamps, bankruptcy protection, unemployment payments, etc. I’m really not sure if most Europeans realize we have these things. They act like they don’t realize it.

What welfare? There was a massive cut in benefits in the 1990’s.

[foolsguinea]

@Magiver

That’s not an accurate statement. They have healt care, but they do not have health INSURANCE. Big honking difference. It is not a life or death suituation like it is in the UK because of long waiting ques. It is life or financial ruin.

“Life or death”? Good grief, Rusty! Like no one ever dies in this country.

@Magiver

Congress does not have socialized medicine. They have insurance which they pay for.

If they pay for their insurance out of their salaries which are paid by taxes, then they have tax-funded insurance. Ergo, it’s the same kind of thing as single-payer insurance, which is what socialized medicine advocates actually want.

[Harmonious_Discord]

I picture England as in fishnet stockings, knickers and a bra lying in the street too drunk to get home or at least out of the puke and garbage after a fancy dress pub crawl.

France is just in the fishnet stockings.

[foolsguinea]

@msmith537

When you post a thread saying that most of America consists of “dirty shabby” areas when you have little idea of how people here actually live, people are going to take offense.

A significant number of, if not most, Americans live in suburban single-family homes and own cars. Neighborhoods range from degenerate slums to extremely nice gated communities. The fact is that if most of your view of America is from the airports and interstates, you are most likely going to only see the lower income areas because that’s who tends to live near them,

A significant number of the aristocratic & warrior castes in medieval Japan lived in nicely appointed palaces & owned horses. Neighborhoods ranged from uninsulated hovels in the woods to extremely wealthy courts.

Without even a gesture in the direction of a distribution analysis, what’s your point?

[elfkin477]

In my state there are 1.3 million people, and there were 14 murders last year. I think I’m a heck of a lot safer than I would be in most parts of the UK.

[gonzomax]

@Justin_Bailey

You might have much less vacation time. I have more than I know what to do with.

You are America? Or do you just speak for it?

[Magiver]

@foolsguinea

If they pay for their insurance out of their salaries which are paid by taxes, then they have tax-funded insurance. Ergo, it’s the same kind of thing as single-payer insurance, which is what socialized medicine advocates actually want.

No, paying for insurance out of your wages is not the same as single-payer insurance. Members of Congress pay for it just like everybody else.

[Hippy_Hollow]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Well, sure, but IRA bombings didn’t have anything to do with you being black. Obviously, that doesn’t make them any more pleasant, but you were referring specifically to racial tensions.

I can’t really say I disagree with you, on the whole, though; there’s certainly much more anti-South Asian racism in Britain (which is not all that surprising since there are many more South Asians in Britain).

I’ve certainly never been called a Paki here or been told to go “home”.

Well, on the first point, random extreme violence directed at Black people because of their race - it happens, but it isn’t common or expected in most situations. A decade before I was born, possibly. Not during my lifetime (Birmingham was '62). American racism is well known, I suspect, but I’m not sure if there’s as much knowledge about the British variant which, as I mentioned, seemed much more casual and “accepted” among spotty Midlands youth when I was little.

I have a good friend who is Indian and grew up in Middlesbrough. I wouldn’t believe half the stuff he tells me about growing up there unless I knew from personal experience that there were riots, etc. up there all the time in the 70s and 80s. He moved to Philly, which he considered to be much safer.

[Wendell_Wagner]

An article about the differences (or lack thereof) between the U.S. and Europe:

http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=10746