I was shocked and dismayed when I saw on the news the other day that Bush is receieving a less than warm welcome in Europe. It seems that many in Europe seem to think poorly of our President and our country in general. Now there are some who would suggest this is because they are jealous because Europe represents the past and the US the future, but this ignores one of the fundamental tenents of progessivism, that America is always wrong. Clearly America must change so that the Europeans will like us again. I think the most sure fire way of getting them to like us is to become more like them, so I have thought of some ways we could improve our society by imitating the Europeans. I know that Europeans are not monolithic so I have broken the suggestions down by country.
UK- I think through a combination of gun laws and lax policing we could reverse the falling crime rate and get it back up to where the UK’s is. I think that if we systematically attacked our medical system we could in a few short years be suffering from the same shortages and poor quality as the HMS. I also think that without too much difficulty we could convince our Asian communities to start rioting. We could also wage campaigns against modern dentistry and food that has taste. Also I am sure that there are many people who could be convinced to beat up foreigners outside of soccer games.
France- We could make a great start by convincing our citizens to bathe only monthly and triple their intake of cheese. We could start paying our farmers huge amounts of money to be less efficient and give unions whatever they want whenever they want it and who cares if unemployment triples. We could start paying our directors to produce movies no one wants to see and our authors to write books no one wants to read. We could disband our military and teach our border guards such useful German phrases “We surrender”, “Please don’t hurt us” and “We never really liked Jews anyway”.
Spain- We could stop killing mass murderers humanely and start killing animals cruelly and in public. We could spend huge amounts of government money to build grotesquely ugly buildings.
Germany- We could elect corrupt officials who use slush funds to enrich themselves at public expense. If a smaller neighbors has an election whose results we don’t like we can bully them until they submit. We can have restrict business until there are thousands of angry, unemployed young people, we can then convince them to shave their heads and attack foreigners.
The Netherlands- We start using doctors to kill the sick and old instead of treating them. Then we can start euthanizing handicapped babies. We can legalize drugs and prostitution and turn our biggest city into an internationally reknowned cesspool.
Now there may be Americans who think this is not a good idea, but in the new America what the people want doesn’t matter, only the bureaucratic elite will be trusted to run the country.
Well, puddleglum, you certainly managed to prove that idiotic, bigoted animosity between Europe and the United States is by no means a one-way street. But I couldn’t help noticing some glaring omissions in your list of offensive national stereotypes: what happened to the overdressed, pasta-gobbling, Mafia-dominated Italians, for example? Or the Scandinavians (they’re all the same, right? no need to break them down by country) having all those illegitimate children in rooms full of weird furniture? And I personally know for a fact that the Luxembourgeois have lousy laundromats.
Sheesh, this isn’t anything close to a GD, it’s a Pit thread. Go crawl back under your rock, puddleglum.
How do we make the Europeans like us? Well, we haven’t tried giving them chewing gum, nylons, chocolates, and cigarettes lately. That always used to work.
No it’s just Bush (or even just his policies, because he seems personally charming)! We’re concerned about environmental issues (especially since Bush ‘owes’ oil companies for election donations), restarting the missile race and the fear that he’s not very adept (like irritating Jefford to go independent).
But we like Americans (except when they post sarcastically for no reason).
Gosh - so much clear analysis; so little prejudice.
I thought the US had a much higher homicide rate than the UK?
HMS? I suppose you mean the NHS (National Health Service)- a medical service available to all (even rude Americans). But if you could explain how your medical system covers poor uninsured people, that would be wonderful.
I guess your rant has something to do with fluoride, but I thought you were already waging a campaign against ‘food that has taste’. It’s called a Big Mac!
Yes, some Asians did throw stones and set a few cars on fire. It lasted for hours (!) You’re so lucky not to have any inner-city riots, lasting for days. :rolleyes:
After all that accuracy, I’m almost embarrassed to agree that football hooligans are annoying. The police have files on over 150 such people who get drunk, overturn chairs, shout abuse and fight amongst themselves.
There are a lot more countries in Europe, but I suppose you ran out of venom.
Oh, and to the overwhelmingly polite majority of Americans - have a nice day! (don’t worry about puddleglum, we Brits have the odd arsehole too).
puddleglum: I wish this was the Pit, so the rest of the intelligent world could tear your bigoted, half-assed stereotypes to shreds. How could you even think of your rambling, ill-informed collection of insults as a “Great Debate”?
OK, where’s the debate here? This doesn’t even have the tenuous GD claim that the bash-the-politician threads have; this is simply a collection of stereotypes about other countries. Puddleglum, did you intend to post this in the Pit?
I don´t believe it is just Bush. This dislike/hatred of America has been around far longer than that. There are quite many in most european countries who for different reasons really dislike America. A lot of these people can be found to the left politically and/or among the nationalistic elements.
The reasons for this fairly widespread dislike/hate are varied and would make for an interesting debate. But I fear this one has gotten of to a bad start.
/Andreas - likes a lot about America and americans
I feel I should only answer this particular section of the OPs opinionated drivel; I wouldn’t presume to speak for anyone in other European countries, so:
Sigh sorry, but this is just too tired an argument - IMHO if you were to arm the populace over here, it would certainly not decrease crime.
You mean the NHS don’t you? yes, it is in a bad way, the previous government (and to a certain degree, the current one) has the idea that everything, even public services, should be run as a profit making venture, I believe the idea is called capitalism, I wonder where we got it from…
Hmmm… yes, of course you don’t have race-related riots over there, do you?
I’m not even sure what you mean by this, it’s too obscure.
Yes, you gave us the bland uniformity of overseasoned fast food, thanks for that.
And yet you still think we should carry guns? Yes, soccer hooliganism is a terrible thing, often the people involved are racist bigots, you don’t know any of those do you?
puddleglum, have you ever been to Europe? or are your experiences limited to poor television news coverage?
Does anybody have up to date figures for this? The best ones I have put US homicide rate (1997) at 6.8 per 100,000 and England/Wales (1992) at 1.41 (sorry, cannot provide source either, I copied the figures in to a spread sheet some time ago and lost the original.) Of note was Northern Ireland (1994 - long before the current cease fire) at 6.09, i.e. comparable to the US
I am fairly certain that more recent UK figures are not much different than the 1992 ones.
Or, we could get Europe to become more like the US.
We could murder our criminals, hand out weapons to kids so that they can shoot their friends, degrade our educational system so that kids only know their own country and capital and borrow so much money from neighbouring countries so that we have to borrow more each year just to pay of the interest.
[sub]Ofcourse, this post is just as educated as the OP, so I do not claim that any of those things above reflect reality[/sub]
Others have done a good job in answering your individual points. As a Brit who has gone on record here as broadly liking both the US and its people (those I’ve interacted with) I can say with some certainty that if I take your question at face value (i.e. filter out the sarcasm) then the answer (at least as far as your contribution to it is concerned) is not to post such inflammatory drivel.
If we set aside for a moment Puddleglum’s ignorant, witless stereotypes of Europeans (and that ain’t easy), perhaps what he/she/it is trying to say is the old argument that no one has the right to oppose US policies because we’re the biggest, most powerful nation and we do what we want, blah blah blah (yawn). Kiddo, it’s a stupid argument and it’s been done to death here.
I think the lax policing has the greater potential here, perhaps our government could issue a report accusing the police of institutional rascism. Though the gun laws could definetly get our rates of burglary and home invasion up.
Yes I did mean the NHS, but the HMS is funnier. I find it refreshing that American pols are not the only ones adept at blaming the previous administration for their own failures. Yes, that America has the best medical care in the world using capitalism and that the UK’s system is crumbling because of a lack of financial incentives is just a coincidence.
Yes we do, but they don’t usually involve Asians.
When Americans think of Britains, the first thing that comes to mind after bad food is poor teeth.
No problem, when I hear about the food you were eating before it is no wonder you embraced the fast food so quickly.
Maybe your right, you people should not be trusted with guns, I personally don’t know any rascist bigots but I occasionally see them on TV. puddleglum, have you ever been to Europe? or are your experiences limited to poor television news coverage? **
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I watch very little TV news but do enjoy reading English newspapers on the web. I plan to visit the UK as soon as you get the crime rate under control and the food is safe to eat again, and the government stops burning carcasses that send foot and mouth viruses into the air.
As for is this a debate, The question is should the US be more like Europe. I can see how the snide remarks may have obscured that but I think there is a debate there.
The Great Debate was How do we get Europe to like us?
I’m having some trouble equating the two. That said, it’s your thread. You’re welcome to hijack it. And, btw, on one level I think you’re right. There probably is a debate here. The problem is that if your opening message is chock full of rant and polemic, it can immediately polarise people and your chances of a good GD are thus lessened.
Any chance a mod could move this to the Pit so that this American could tell puddles precisely what kind of a putz he is? He’s made it quite clear there’s no GD here.
I went to America last year for GenCon. This is a gathering of roleplayers, particularly Dungeons and Dragons.
I first stayed in Chicago for a few days. That Sears tower is BIG :eek:, and I also saw Union Station, where they filmed ‘The Untouchables’ with Kevin Costner and Sean Connery .
Then I went by train to Wisconsin, and spent 4 days with 25,000 other games-players.
Everyone I met was polite, helpful and interested in England*.
There was no swearing, drunkenness or rudeness.
I had offers to keep in touch from people who shared my specific interests (chess, teaching D+D in Schools and 18xx railway games), and countless invitations to come back next year to meet people again.
.