I didn’t say massive military spending was ruining the nation. Obviously the nation is being ruined by [insert your favorite scapegoat here]. But we are wasting money in pointless military spending. Which is why IMHO China is unlikely to emulate us in that regard. On this whole subject I’m more concerned about an economic collapse in China that has world-wide repercussions. Their growth is slowing, and they are dependent on exports to maintain it.
[QUOTE=pinguin]
OK, But is more than 800 billions, isn’t?
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The requested budget for 2012 is $881 billion…that, of course, doesn’t mean they will actually get that money. And the total US budget is over $3.5 trillion. Even if the US defense budget is, say, $900 billion (to round it off)…what’s 900 billion times 2? Is it $3.5 trillion? Is this the new math?? 
-XT
I see. Yes, it is only 1/4 of the budget. Just peanuts.
So, what you are saying is that it isn’t half on the way to 2/3rds, right? Glad we could clear that.
-XT
Yes. The U.S. military expending is quite conservative. Go on. Expend more, please.
Why are you hijacking your own thread? I pointed out US military expenditures to explain why China will not spend at these levels on their own military. It isn’t about the percentage of budget, its about the return for the dollar for the US, and the free protection we provide China already.
I wouldn’t say it’s conservative or even modest. Those are both debatable points. I was merely pointing out that you were wrong, old boy, and that your exaggeration was ridiculous. Now that you’ve admitted that, why don’t you push on to address the rest of how we are ‘second’, and why that really matters in any case? Have you backed off on your assertion that China is in imminent danger of overtaking the US (in 4 years) in terms of real GDP by the expedient of somehow tripling their GDP in such a short time? Did you want to continue to discuss that, or did you want to shift the debate to one involving what the US spends on defense?
-XT
China will take the U.S., if not in 4, in 8 years as much.
Sorry, fellow, but we better use the rest to the thread to see how America addapts to it.
Look at poor Britain, that still have those dreams of glory, with royalty included, no matter its economy has diminished like crazy since when it was the single global superpower. Is the U.S. going to follow that path? Or is going to accept its possition with dignity?
[QUOTE=pinguin]
China will take the U.S., if not in 4, in 8 years as much.
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If you assume that China’s growth will simply continue indefinitely, that there are no fundamental problems with their government or their system, and a host of other assumptions then…maybe. So what? Assume that China’s GDP overtakes the US in 8 years…what does that matter? Why do you think that’s important?
You should probably spend the rest of the thread trying to prove your various assertions, and perhaps fact checking them before you make them, to avoid any further embarrassment.
Out of curiosity, why do you think America has to adapt to China having a higher GDP? What do you expect that to mean for the US? To me, it sounds like a golden opportunity. Will China’s currency be valued at something akin to reality in this future? Will their new found wealth be reflected in an increase in standard of living to the average Chinese? If so, then there will be worlds of new markets open to US goods and services, as well as European goods and services, Japanese goods and services, Canadian goods and services, Korean goods and services, etc etc…sounds like a bold new world to me. What’s the down side for the US to having to be in second place, GDP wise (or 3rd, since we are in 2nd already if you count the EU)? Why is it important or meaningful?
Have you ever looked at a map? Have you ever looked at a map of the British Empire, then compared it to a map of the current British Isles? Have you ever noticed the difference?
-XT
Fellow. Since the early 20th century the U.S. has been the richest country worldwide in GDP. Now, it won’t be anymore.
That’s an interesting change.
But wait, probably India will challenge the U.S. one more time in the near future.
Note: It is hard to be the king of the world, without a royal treasure backing up the power.
I too noticed that the metric was total PPP which doesn’t say anything about being a foreign economic powerhouse.
When they pass us in total GDP that is sort of news (because they can use it to bully around other nations). When they near us in per capita PPP it means that they live as well as we do if you ignore Gini. But total PPP tells us near nothing.
[QUOTE=pinguin]
Fellow. Since the early 20th century the U.S. has been the richest country worldwide in GDP. Now, it won’t be anymore.
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The EU overtook us a while ago. Again…so what? What do you expect that to mean? If some guy passes Bill Gates in total wealth, does that mean Billy boy is not rich anymore??
Um…yeah. I agree. What change are we talking about?
makes a hand gesture to go on And? So? Let’s pretend that India AND China overtake the US in total GDP. Then what? Do you think that if India and China both have higher GDP that means we’ll have less? Their loss is our gain? Their gain our loss? Zero sum game? Or did you mean something else? Again…if TWO people overtake Bill Gates in wealth, does that mean Bill Gates isn’t rich and powerful anymore? What if 3 people do? 5? 7?
We aren’t king of the world, and because China has a bigger GDP than we do (assuming they do) won’t mean we are broke. The EU has a bigger GDP than the US…what does it mean in terms of how rich or not-rich we are? In how powerful or not-powerful we are? If a man takes a bus to New York going at 50 miles an hour, and another man takes a plane to New Deli going 300 miles an hour, what will a man sitting in Moscow have for lunch tomorrow? Can you tell me THAT???
-XT
Interesting. So you guys don’t care. You answer it quite well.
Yes; if and when America finally gets of of the would-be-empire business, it’ll probably get economically stronger not weaker, assuming it isn’t too late to recover by then. America has taken on many of the economic burdens of empire without any benefit from it. Although we seem to take it as a matter of faith that there is some kind of benefit.
This is quite surprising, guys, sincerely.
I always though Americans enjoyed the “empire” business. A sort of “manifest destiny” at global scale. It is only you that think like that or the people in general think quite different than the state?
Although the military spending of the U.S. has been obviously used for great evil, it’s a great make work program for a huge variety of sectors. Otherwise the U.S. doesn’t have much of an economy, let alone tech based. Complaining about military spending hurting the economy while using a computer and on the internet and using satellites… :eek:
EDIT:
All states are separate from their people. But Americans definitely want to see America remain the preeminent power.
The Cold War ended in '91.
Actually, the loss of US economic dominance will be a good thing for most Americans. Instead of fighting endless wars and serving in military bases around the world, the Chinese will get that role. The Washington elite that sees itself as world cop needs to be taken down a peg.
WE borrow monet from China to “defnd” ourselves from China-makes perfect sense!
I don’t. I think our culture would be better off if we were unambiguously busted down.
Which is not to say that I think there’s anything good about China, in particular, taking that spot.