This thread talks about going $250K into debt to become a doctor. Now, as I understand it, in America, college debt is not subject to bankrupcy. So what happens if you fail? Say you get to that crucial final exam and flunk it? Flipping burgers at Macdonalds isn’t going to cover a $100K or $250K debt.
It’s not as if there’s one big final you take and then poof you’re a doctor. There are all sorts of certifications and things depending on your specialty. You can always retake exams or change fields or whatever. Of course, if you eventually decide not to practice medicine, you still have to pay the loan back eventually.
I would assume you would be paying for a long, long time.
As someone who hears a lot of this, I’ve got to tell you that finances come up very often when informing students that they are in danger of failing. I can’t tell you how often I hear, “But Professor PRR, you CAN’T fail me–I owe $xx,xxx I’ll never be able to repay if I flunk out.”
And why is this my problem? Because colleges are encouraging appplicants who don’t have any interest or any business in or any aptitude for college and “helping” them take out loans, so when a predictable number of them flunk out, they’re really badly screwed.
That doesn’t turn bad work into good work, of course, but it’s hard not to sympathize.
As I understand it - and correct me if I’m wrong - with a normal debt of too great a degree, you can declare bankrupcy and move on, but you can’t do this with a student debt, so how does someone move on in this case? Can you enlist and have the debt written off? Can you ‘dodge’ them for a certain length of time? Or do you just have to knuckle under?
I don’t know about loans for medical school but the private loans I’ve acquired to go to a private college have an option of forbearance for economic hardship. Basically, they will agree to not penalize you for a period of time (up to a year) for not making payments, but you do evenually have to pay them back.
But I suspect that ultimately, what many do if they don’t find work that earns them enough to cover the loans is just not pay on them. They’re not going to throw you in jail for not paying, and while it will ruin your credit I think people in that situation might consider that a sacrifice they’re willing to make.
They will garnish your earnings, force you into bankruptcy, and make you pay them.
Sallie Mae sends her “associates” to your house to “break your legs”.
Well there are other ‘debts’ that you get out of through bankrupacy either, one such one is child support. Student loans, on the plus side is most likely the most fair loan you will ever have, What other loan can you change the terms from equal payments to stepped payments, suspend payments AND interest if you go back to school full time, be able to go on hardship (something or other) and suspend payments, and consolidate to a fixed interest rate and you reset the lenght of repayment out to 20 years.
Also I beleive there is a max limit in percentages that debters can take directly from your paycheck, but they can also take your tax refund - so if you deal in cash that’s all they can get, but there is no way your going to repay it this way.
Student loans are second in popularity for “unpaid debts” on the credit reports I pull (#1 is cell phones). You cannot get a mortgage if you have uncollected student loans, cause the loaners can attached the property.
Also, you don’t go $250k in debt right away to become a doctor. This seems like it would happen to someone about $30k a year over about 8 years. That would indicate a person attending private schools, probably, and not earning any scholarships. In my experience with many college pre-med friends, that would be a typical profile of someone who was getting a lot of cues all along that they weren’t really good at this, but was buying their way to the next level.
There are a fair number of opportunities for a medical student to earn scholarships or to sign up for loans that will be forgiven for working in an underserved area. It is no doubt possible to go $250k in debt, but there would also be ways to avoid it.
And even if something happens and the person can’t practice medicine, they most likely could get fairly well-paying work at an insurance company, pharmaceutical company, as a hospital administrator, or something similar. So it wouldn’t be down to flipping burgers, necessarily.
I go to college with a number of people who shouldn’t BE in college, and I do feel for them. Some high school counselor convinced them college was accessible, and now they are there, working their butts off, and not cutting it (at a school that is a step up from Community College, which is a step down from your average High School honors class).
Its hard to sympathize when the pleas come from someone who still has the plastic on their textbook three weeks out from the end of the semester, and has left each class at break (night school) and who apparently thought paying the bill entitles them to a C. (Extreme, but happens). I don’t even have a lot of sympathy from the people who didn’t read the material before the lecture so they could ask informed questions.
I have a fairly large amount of college loans, that with a Social Services degree, I will never–absolutely never–be able to completely repay. I make slight payments every month (to keep it from going in default), but I don’t invision winning the lottery or anything to enable me to completely pay off my loans before I die. Seriously.
I was a nontraditional student (didn’t graduate until after I was in my 30’s) and went to school part time (while working full time and raising a family) and it took me almost 8 years to get a Bachelor’s degree. If it hadn’t been for school loans, I never would have made it financially.
That being said, when I die, I’ll still be pen pals with Sallie Mae. My family thinks I’m kidding. I’m not.
During my stint in graduate school, I was a teaching assistant for a science class. I definitely saw my share of people that just could not handle it. High school counselors do a good job of convincing people that everyone should go to college, but the unfortunate reality of life is that some people are destined to remain at the bottom of the curve.
I had students ask me to inflate their grades. I never did so, but I felt sorry for most of them.
Seeing as this is my sister we’re talking about, I want to clear a few things up
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We both went to a public undergrad on scholarships. Our debt load was ZERO, for both of us before we went to school.
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It’s not my job to out where my sister goes to school so don’t yell “cite” at me in terms of where she matriculates.
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Her tuition ALONE for 4 years is 150K because she goes to a private school
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She lives in the middle of a big city. Her living costs over 4 years pushes her into the low 200s.
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Her health insurance then pushes her about 10K higher.
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Then there are books and equipment fees.
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And finally there’s all the money she has to spend on Board prep classes, books etc. etc…
That’s approx. 250K for FOUR YEARS of medical school.
And to the person who stated that people who pile up that much debt must be retarded or something I can only say that you must not have much experience with this. Yes she could have promised to go into immunology or Indian health or whatever but she just didn’t want to commit to something she decided she didn’t want to do later (not to mention the fact that she’s married so she can’t just move to the middle of nowhere). And you frankly have no idea how tough it is to get into medical school. She had a 3.9 from a prestigious undergraduate university and a 36 on her MCATs and she only got into 1 school (granted it’s a good one).
As to the failure thing, I could swear my sister said her classes were P/F (although you know your number grade on each test) and I definitely remember her telling me that once you’re in there they really really baby you through it and the people who are lagging get a lot of handholding before they’re kicked out.
I actually found this to be true at my lawschool, as well. You have to be catatonic before they’ll flunk you out.
Ummm…
If they don’t discharge in bankruptcy, can they actually force you into it?
Is there a cap on what they can garnish on a percentage basis?
Ah. 25% of disposable income, 0% of what you make under $154 per week.
I guess even in a worst case scenario, they’ll never get more than 25% of your paycheck.
It would suck, but wouldn’t kill you.
Glad I paid cash for school.
Not the medical school she attends but equivalent. Other than the tuition, they lowball everything, but check out how much it costs for 4 years alone at a private medical school in the US.
My understanding (based on PhD programs rather than medical schools) is that not very many people flunk out. Plenty of people give up and drop out, but generally speaking, once you’re in, the school will really make an effort to get you what you need to finish.