American Eugenics Movement and Euro Nazism

I had a very basic familiarisation with the American Eugenics movement ( saw the movie about Kellog’s Sanitorium) And I sort of assumed it was a localised crank-culture and not so serious in its general impact on society.

But reading this Wiki article:

Eugenics in the United States - Wikipedia i

t shows a much wider and more sickeningly serious spread of “racial purity” measures that could be compared to what was happening in Nazi Germany.

Forced sterilization, euthanasia, better baby competitions based on supposed stereotypical norms. Legislation to back them up as well.

WTF? I know Wiki is not necessarily always a credible source but was the racism that was rife in Nazi Germany spawned in the good old US of A/

I have to add that I may not be able to get back to responses as soon as I would like but would welcome my ignorance fought on the rise and fall ( if it has fallen) of eugenics in the USA (or in the UK if Brit Dopers are so inclined)

Wow. Racism in the US. Inconceivable!

The main difference is that the US version of Eugenics did not gain widespread acceptance, nor did it become general public policy. And it generally didn’t push for the killing of undesirables.

Unless you consider 65,000 involuntary sterilizations across 33 states to be widespread. True, after WWII it fell out of fashion to endorse eugenics. However, forced sterilization took place in the US until recent times, the last being in 1981 in Oregon.

“The principal targets of the American program were the mentally retarded and the mentally ill, but also targeted under many state laws were the deaf, the blind, people with epilepsy, and the physically deformed.” From the above wiki link.

I disagree.

It was just a bit more subtle. Or hidden.

Anticounterrevolutionary This is what shocked me reading the link too. It was not only public policy but according to the article states enacted eugenic laws mandating sterilisation.

What about government sponsored IVF treatments?
Designer babies? Deaf designer babies?
Selective abortion? (Aborting fetuses with Down’s, for example?)
Restricting marriage between two cognitively disabled people?
Surgically castratingsex offenders?
Human cloning?
Stem cell research?

And, less seriously: Animal breeding?
Science can be a bitch.

CitizenPained makes a fine point. If we use the definition given at dictionary.com those are all examples of eugenics.

“the study of or belief in the possibility of improving the qualities of the human species or a human population, especially by such means as discouraging reproduction by persons having genetic defects or presumed to have inheritable undesirable traits (negative eugenics) or encouraging reproduction by persons presumed to have inheritable desirable traits (positive eugenics).”

Yeah. Liberal eugenics tries to distance itself from racist eugenics, but its the same foundation. End human suffering. Make people better. Eradicate diseases and deformities. Control our own destiny.

Really, many early eugenicists had noble ideas - just like the geneticists/researchers/doctors/scientists of today. Early eugenics was about what made humans successful. It just went the wrong direction. :confused:

Modern eugenics is a little bit consumerism, and a little bit what will make humans successful?

Yep, it happened. That’s why my husband and I never had children. He’s not even sure when they sterilized him, just that it was done when he was a boy somewhere during the multiple surgeries he required for his birth defect and he was never told. He found out in his 20’s, when at the doctor for another reason.

The sad thing (well, one of them)? His birth defect isn’t one that’s inherited. Any children he would have had would most likely have been perfectly normal.

The rascism that infected Nazi Germany was not spawned in the US, it was just part of the zeitgeist of progressivism that was common in the world at the time. Each nation manifested it differently. Liberal Fascism is a good book to read if you are interested in the history of those ideas.

Thanks, I will check that out.

Maybe with evolving standards of decency its practices are now abhorrent. I find it hard to focus on how far we have come as opposed to how misguided we were.

Even in the matter of a mere hundred years

Broomstick Thats horrible! Small pennies and the coldest of comfort but was there no legal recourse?

Moving to Great Debates.

Eugenics is likely to return, although via birth technologies and gene therapies. Currently, most western countries are experiencing dysgenic fertility rates where chav’shave the most children.

Seymour Itzkoff provides the the foreword to the number one book on Eugenics, ‘Future Human Evolution’: Eugenics in the Twenty-First Century

Well, Chen, your citation of the term

just turned me off.

Not a good book to recommend.

http://www.hnn.us/articles/122469.html

It’s a great book if you want to be told what you want to hear.

Except in the case of animal breeding, none of these are eugenics. Some present a similarity, such as “designer” babies, but that is actually just assortative mating plus technology. Eugenics seeks to improve the population’s gene pool by allowing breeding of individuals with desirable traits and preventing breeding of those with undesirable traits. IVF, as an example, basically flies in the face of that definition.

…but don’t actually want to learn anything about them.

One interesting aspect of the Nazi movement was its ability to absorb various popular and seemingly progressive ideas, including naturally a good deal of cranky and totally bizzare popular movements, even if mutually contradictory or outright silly - hence the eternal arguments about what the Nazis “really” believed.

Eugenics was just one of the many (often bad) popular ideas taken onboard by the Nazis.

It is sort of as if these days a popular political party/movement evolved that included believers in everything from anti-Muslim paranoia and extreme animal rights terrorists through UFO enthusiasts.

What the Nazis “really believed” is a protean target. Aside from certain bedrock elements - a hatred of Communists, Slavs and Jews, and the primacy of struggle - different Nazis seemed to believe quite different things: for example, some were “into” teutonic paganism in a big way (Hitler himself thought they were nuts).