In the 04 Jan 2003 issue of The Economist, an article ran called Living with a superpower. The article reports on three studies on “values” and does so in context of where America stands relative to the world. One of the studies surveyed, among others, the statement “Dislike American ideas about democracy.” Here is a small sampling of % who agree with that statement by country:[ul][li]Britain: 42%[]France: 53%[]Germany: 45%[]Italy: 37%[]Poland & Czech Republic: 30%[]Russia: 46%[]Pakistan: 60%[]Turkey: 50%[]Indonesia: 40%[]Japan: 27%[/ul][/li]Obviously, American views on democracy are not universal. (Duh.) Since I’m an American you can imagine two things are true: 1. Being immersed in the culture, I probably don’t know what American ideas on democracy are in an explicit sense, and 2. I don’t know what other view on democracy are. Both assumptions are generally correct. My question, then, is this: What are the American views of democracy and how do they differ from others’ views of democracy? And, please juxtapose American ideas of democracy with Turkish, British, French, Uzbeki, Japanese, or any other nation’s/people’s/culture’s ideas about democracy.
PLEASE! No proselytizing. I put this in GQ for a reason.
*You may have to subscribe to read this, but it does not matter in context of this question.
One needs to define the term American Democracy before proceeding. Once that’s done, that definition must be used in the survey. Unless you establish such a baseline, everyone interviewed will offer their opinion from individual personal experiences about “American Democracy.”
[ul]
[li]Head of government elected by indirectly by popular vote, through the Electoral College.[/li][li]Two-party stranglehold on state and federal elected offices for 140+ years[/li][li]Strong federalism: Most laws are created at the state level, not national.[/li][li]Rights not enumerated in the Constitution or laws belong to the citizens.[/li][li]Most liberal freedom of speech in the world.[/li][li]Elections increasingly driven by fund-raising and enormous expense.[/li][/ul]
Well, just an acedotal observation. Remember the Florida vote count thing? People in China were just incredulous that that process was passed off as democracy. The general concensus I got was a great big WTF? Not trying to get into a religious war here, merely pointing out that the American system ended up with the result as GWB as President. Now many and perhaps most Americans will say the last Presidental election was a triumph in democracy.
Think about Walloon’s answer with some of these other styles:
[ul]
[li]Some countries have national elections for their presidents or first ministers or whatever. We don’t – they’re state elections (electorates).[/li][li]Some countries have pouplar elections for their presidents. We use the electoral college.[/li][li]Some countries elect parties to their congress or equivilent. This body then chooses the president (not the people)[/li][li]Some countries have coalition governments, whereby many parties exist for every little purpose. Once in office, they have to get together in a coalition to choose the president.[/li][li]Some countries have a vote of (no )confidence whereby the president can call a general election and renew his term (or lose!) whenever he wants to.[/li][li]Some countries have fake democracies or are just emerging from fake democracies. For example, having a syndicate-driven 18-wheeler “accidently” running over the opposition party candidate just as he’s getting popular recognition and thereby maintaining a 71-year single-party rule.[/li][li]Some countries are ruled by referrendum, meaning whatever popular notion – however wrong or stupid – can be mandated by the people.[/li][/ul]
Some countries require a minimum of eligible voters participate in an election–too low a turnout (i.e., U.S.-style turnouts) leads to the election being declared invalid.
Plus, let’s not forget that a lot of other countries’ views of US Democracy may be strongly influenced by US foreign policy … which has supported stable autocratic regimes far more often than inherently unstable (for US interests, at least) democratic ones.
The survey is useless; you haven’t asked the one question that undermines it: “What does the average citizen of these countries even know about American ideas about democracy?” I can’t see the paid content on that site, so I don’t know exactly how this question was asked, but I doubt they presented a list of actual American ideas about democracy and asked people whether they agreed with them, or how much they agreed with. It would have been much more honest to just ask “What do you think of America?” – they would have gotten the same answers.
The survey in question was conducted by the Pew Research Center. The relevant page is here. The question in question is discussed on pages 74 & 75 of the complete report.
I’m not dismissing your critique when I say this: The article on the survey only prompted the question I asked. Regardless how accurate the figures I offered are, my question remains: What are American vs. other views of democracy.
There’s a pretty interesting graph on page 37 of the complete report, if anybody is interested. That may provide some useful inspiration for a thread in GD.
If the American system is taken as the American idea of democracy, then I think many should disagree with it being called democracy. It is a representative republic in the sense that we elect representatives, which is a soft of a form of rule by the people. But government by referendum would be a truer democracy, wouldn’t it?
I think one of the main things other countries dislike about so-called American democracy is the idea of rugged individualism. The way we Americans detest communism or even hints of socialism. That it is better that everyone be allowed to succeed or fail inequally rather than to try and guarantee that everyone succeed equally.
The democracies in question are all parliamentary democracies. They can get rid of an erring PM with a simple vote of no confidence, which Italy and Japan in particular seem to do with frightening regularity. Most of these countries have “dissolved the government and formed a new one” multiple times since 1945, something we haven’t done since 1787.
If America had a parliamentary system, the senate would have no meaningful role (Think of the UK’s House of Lords) and Newt Gingrich would have been correct in his belief that the President (Clinton, specifically) was irrelevant.
js_aficanus, thanks for the link. The actual question is here:
It’s this sort of question that makes discussion a bit foggy. What ideas about democracy? Ideas about spreading it, ideas about what it ought to be, ideas about what it is? All of these are going to be addressed in a question like this, and we have no way of knowing which is foremost.
What are America’s ideas about democracy?
Democracy is best watered down; a mob cannot be trusted.
Democracy sounds great, but one man’s vote can’t make a difference.
Democracy demands an educated society.
Democracy demands a free press.
Democracy demands that everyone vote.
Democracy demands that civil rights be protected.
Democracy demands that people be free to act their consciences.
Democracy demands an armed citizenry.
Democracy is admirable, but a democratic nation that opposes American goals is an enemy.
Democracy is admirable, but we must support our friends even if they’re despots.
Democracy is essential, and we must act to preserve democracy, even if it means supporting those who oppose us.
Democracy can only thrive in a capitalist economy.
Democracy cannot thrive in a pure capitalist economy.
And that’s only the beginning of the various, sometimes contradictory ideas Americans have about democracy. Which of those were being addressed by the respondents? Any?
[li]Head of government elected by indirectly by popular vote, through the Electoral College.**[/li][/Quote]
[/ul]
Let’s call this representative republic by a more preferred name representative democracy
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[Quote] [li]Two-party stranglehold on state and federal elected offices for 140+ years[/li][/Quote]
[/ul]
What would you prefer? Do you want the Republicans to have to form a coalition with the Religious Right in order to get control over the Democrats and their coalition with the Social Reformists? And what was so much better before 1863? Could it be a reference to when the Republican Party was formed (actually a little before then).
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[Quote] [li]Strong federalism: Most laws are created at the state level, not national.[/li][/Quote]
[/ul]
The laws controlled at the state level are covered in the Bill of Rights. This is generally called State Rights as opposed to Federalist which argues for a central government. Therefore Federalist has to do with the central government not the states. In other words you had this backasswards.
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[Quote] [li]Rights not enumerated in the Constitution or laws belong to the citizens.[/li][/Quote]
[/ul]
If the Constitution does not give control to the Federal Government then the States have control. Nothing that I know of says that I have the right to pee in the street.
[ul]
[Quote] [li]Most liberal freedom of speech in the world.[/li][/Quote]
[/ul]
Now you’re getting HOT, but what about freedom of the press and religion (all in the first of ten rights). Do you really have any conception of how revolutionary THE BILL OF RIGHTS were?
[ul]
[Quote] [li]Elections increasingly driven by fund-raising and enormous expense.[/li][/Quote]
[/ul]
You’re just looking for faults, aren’t you? That isn’t a cheap shot, but I’ll bet you don’t know how to correct it, either.
I would characterize the “American view of democracy” as a belief in limited and fragmented government power. Under our system, rather than concentrating all power in a Prime Minister and Cabinet backed by a majority of a single house of parliament, we divide power (a) between federal and state governments; and (b) within each level of government, between a president/governor and a bicameral legislature. Then, too, our Constitution contains more restrictions on government power (“Congress shall make no law . . .”) than do many others.
But I agree with Nametag that to ask this question in the context of a survey about overall “attitudes toward America” is ridiculous. It would be like asking Americans what they think of the “British view of democracy”. It’s a loaded question that defies a rational answer.
fed·er·al·ism
Function: noun
Date: 1789 1 aoften capitalized : the distribution of power in an organization (as a government) between a central authority and the constituent units – compare CENTRALISM b : support or advocacy of this principle
Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
