sigh Cite? If it happened, the reason it gained attention is because it is unusual.
Look, nobody in this thread has tried to deprive you of the right to celebrate your Christmas in the way you want to, with your choice of trimmings, and for your own reasons. Allow the rest of us the same latitude, please.
Blimey! Sorry about this empty space earlier.
Athough I have heard this many times, and yes, my education is/has been secular, I have yet to see anything concrete.
The reason so many Christian holidays fall at the time of previous pagan celerbrations was so that the church could a. detract from the other holiday, and b. Would hopefully gain more followers- as in they are going to celerbrate something, so let us be sure it’s Christian. Of course, no one knows the exact time of birth. If it were found to be exactly March 21rst, and the church wanted to move it, I’d say go for it.
These dates were instilled years before any of us were born. It is undebatebale what the angel or star on the tree mean to christians. If you know the exact date of birth, by all means, please let me know, with your proof. Until then, It is Dec. 25 I’ll be celerbrating on.
I’m sorry, but you wrote that the birth of Christ itself was debatable. Few people to me doubt his existence. What it means is what they debate.
There are letters and such which display existence of Christ.
Cite- this happened a while back. She appered on CNN crossfire. I doubt I could find it now. If I did, it would reveal my exact location which I rather no do.
It’s about “Enlightened” elitism due to difference of beleifs more than it is about celerbrations. Please see above.
First off, I said many, not most. There’s a difference.
And by many, I mean the thousands, heck, millions of people who live on earth that think your Christ is a fairy tale. I was not speaking of people who claim to be Christian. Not everyone believes in Jesus. You did know that, right?
Secondly, I will sing Silent Night whenever and wherever I want. I don’t believe Mary was a virgin. I don’t believe Jesus was the son of God, but I’ll be damned if you can stop me from singing a stupid song.
I will not offer any more debate on the issue of whether or not pagan traditions were latched onto by the Church and twisted for their own reasons. Any actual desire for knowledge on that subject can be fulfilled with a history book and a little research in a library or on the Internet. You obviously have the Internet at hand, but choose instead to wallow in your ignorance. So be it.
Choose to worship/celebrate how ever you want. It’s your right. It’s also mine to celebrate how I deem fit, and if that involves dressing men up in drag as the ‘virgin’ Mary and putting on a beautiful rendition of the fairy tale birth of the Christian God complete with a centaur standing guard and the wise men riding up on heffalumps and woozels on the morning of December 25th. I can. Big deal.
And one last time is will repeat- It is NOT your holiday. December 25th is the day that Christians around the world choose to celebrate the birth of their Christ. You do not own the day. You do not own the season. We will continue on in the manners we deem fit for our celebrations, and you can spend yours frothing at the mouth over how we’re not suiting your ideals for the holiday.
FB
and upon review, as a preemptive:
When I say ‘does not believe’ and ‘fairy tale’, I am speaking of the divine aspect.
I’m not speaking of the existence of a man named Jesus. I’m speaking of the claim that he was the son of God, born to a virgin.
Bring on the cites. You will not find an example of me putting down Christians. I guarantee it.
I haven’t got anything to add except that this thread is the stupidest thing I’ve seen since ‘My Mother the Car’, that Jackelope encapsulated everything that needed to be said in one post and that I too can’t wait until Jack Batty is king.
Honestly, bickering over the minutae of who says ‘Merry Christmas’ to whom? Makes the “Is Johnny Hart a bigot” thread seem weightier than a cruise liner.
By the way, I’m an agnostic not an atheist.
Ben is right. Let’s put the ‘Christ’ back in 'Christ, is this thread stupid!"
I’ll admit it when I think I’m wrong, and I owe you an apology Diogenes. I suppose I confused you with someone else.
Anyway, I found you to be defending Christians in many instances, as well as other religons. Oh, and this made me smile, I must admit:
couldn’t agree more. 
The “stupid bitch” comment threw me off, and again I’m sorry. It seemed to me that our disagreement did not warrant the nastiness.
No problem, madamoiselle. Actually, it’s sort of ironic because I often get accused by one of our more vociferous atheists of being “too sympathetic” to Christians. I admit to some bias against certain facets of fundamentalist Christianity (homophobia, creationism, general bigotry) but those biases are no rooted in any antipathy towards Christians per se, just what I see as toxic attitude. FWIW, I happen to be married to a very nice Catholic girl who I think is smarter than me and is a better person to boot.
I apologize for the “stupid bitch” comment. I felt like you were passing judgement on me for not sharing your beliefs and implying that I didn’t have the same right to celebrate Christmas as you do. I just blew up in frustration and I’m sorry.
Merry Christmas.
Aww…
Now that’s Christmassy.
I think mademoiselle is talking about really smug, jerkish atheists, like oh, Lolo?, who do nothing but belittle religious people and then turn around and celebrate Christmas.
They have complete and utter contempt for the believers, but still want the good stuff.
This, dear yosemitebabe, is what we call being whooshed. And I must say, it’s one of the most spectacular whooshes I’ve ever seen. As a matter of fact, the longer I think about it, the more I think that it’s not even a whoosh – you just missed my fucking point entirely. And I thought I was being helpful, including a smart alecky quip about how putting on the pope’s hat does not make one Christian. The implication (which I, granted, should have said explicitly, as you have demonstrated with your ahem response) being, of course, that wearing a Santa hat does NOT make you a Christian.
Fercryinoutloud, I told you I was an atheist who has worn a Santa hat. I know you read it, because you quoted it. Those atheist friends of yours? I might know them, because we’re such a tight-knit community. (Oops, better clarify for you, there – that was sarcasm). Given that (1) the pope’s hat quip was ridiculous and (2) I told you I was an atheist, how in the name of Hera’s Giant Tits are you going to contend that I belive that putting on a hat makes you Christian??
A neutron star envies your density.
**
And that density shines as brightly as ever! My stepfather’s Jewish, and he still gives his daughter presents from Santa. My ex-girlfriend is also Jewish, and she used to get gifts from Santa. I’m an atheist and was raised as such (more or less), and Santa visited me too!
Are you missing something, sweetcakes? Yup. Like it or not, ya don’t have to be Christian to celebrate Christmas (Santa and all!) Hell, I’ll reword it and be even more precise – NON-CHRISTIANS CAN CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS.
It is a federal holiday, after all.
**
No, but you’ve already stated that it’s store policy for you to NOT wish people Merry Christmas, and you’re acting like they’re forcing you to say Heil Hitler or something. If that’s your martyr act, I’m even less impressed than I was by Rush Limbaugh’s recent pleas about being a victim.
**
I don’t really understand where you got the idea that I don’t want you to wish me Merry Christmas. Was it this part, where I said (emphasis added), “I’d embarrass you if you wished me a Merry Christmas. I wouldn’t tear into you…” Sweetie, sweetie, you need to STOP reading the opposite of what’s there! I mean, I played Opposite Day when I was younger too, but it’s time to put away such childish things headpat.
**
To me? Not a goddamn thing. I’m very impressed by your bold stance against the tyranny of management. Fight the good fight.
**
As I recall, you were the one who posted first in this thread, with some sob story about how your dog-raping manager and his Satan-inspired store policy forbid you from uttering that magical phrase. That would be YOU making a big deal about your language, not I.
**
I didn’t say I’d try to make you feel foolish. AAMOF, I DID say that I would not tear into you. (I even quoted it again above! Go check it out! But… um… try reading it without the Opposite Day schtick you used in your last post.) I said you would feel foolish and stammery. You say you wouldn’t – meh. I guess you’re so used to making incorrect assumptions, it’s almost a comfortable feeling for you.
Santanalia people.
Wear red, eat a lot, and say ho hoho!
New way to celebrate.
Well, you got me. But I must say, that was the lamest whoosh I’ve ever seen—you were merely repeating what I’ve already repeated: Non-Christians celebrate Christmas too. And let’s get this straight: It’s CHRISTMAS that they are celebrating. Yeah. That’s it. It’s called CHRISTMAS. That’s the name. Yeah. That one.
That’s gotta be the lamest ever. Where have I contended that non-Christians don’t celebrate Christmas?
So, let me get this straight. You don’t celebrate Christmas? So what do you do on December 25th? Work? Eat Chinese? What?
What was your point in telling me that you wore the Santa hat?
Because I already got the point that non-Christians celebrate Christmas. I did state so in my post. That was the whole point of my post.
And what are these gifts called?
When, you, as an atheist, were given gifts, were they called “December 25th gifts”? What were they called? And on what day did you receive them?
Could you give me a cite where you show that Santa is officially part of the Jewish holiday?
You are so dramatically missing the point, and yet you call me dense?
You said it yourself: They celebrate CHRISTMAS. Unless you’re trying to whoosh me again (in such a lame way). Are you? Never can be to sure with you now.
So, let’s get this straight. They celebrate CHRISTMAS. That’s what you call it, right? CHRISTMAS.
So this is the newsflash that you are telling me?
Golly gee—that was exactly the point I was making before.
What is this? Another one of your lame whooshes?
Yeah. And what is that federal holiday called? You know, the one that is on December 25th?
Oh yeah. CHRISTMAS.
So what you are saying here is even though these non-Christians celebrate something on December 25th, and this “something” that they celebrate includes Santa, gifts, a big decorated tree, lots of food, a decor that includes plenty of the color green and red, and fun songs like “I’ll be home for Christmas” and “Jingle Bells,” one should not risk saying “Merry Christmas” to them, because they might be offended?
If that is not your point, what the hell is your point?
There are a lot of stupid rules at jobs. I’m simply saying that if they want me to follow one so utterly assinine, they need to pay me more.
You mean that you think there is some harm in me wishing the nuns “Merry Christmas,” “just in case” they don’t really celebrate? Is that your contention? For every “rule,” there should be a reason. To forbid someone from saying something that is obviously innocuous and not harmful to someone else, “just because” is stupid.
Unless the real reason to insist that everyone say “Happy Holidays” isn’t really about the fear that maybe you’ll offend the nuns, but some other reason. What reason would that be?
[quote]
I don’t really understand where you got the idea that I don’t want you to wish me Merry Christmas. Was it this part, where I said (emphasis added), “I’d embarrass you if you wished me a Merry Christmas. I wouldn’t tear into you…” I got that. Golly gee—I’m so glad that you wouldn’t “tear into” me. And no, you wouldn’t embarass me either. Because this is so unbelievably stupid.
Ah, such sarcasm. So clever.
I think the word you were looking for, instead of “dog raping” and “Satan-inspired” was lame. That’s all that I thought it was—lame. But I suppose it would be too much to ask for you to actually get the point I was actually trying to make.
I wouldn’t. Because this is the lamest ever.
Christmas can be and is two different holidays. For Christians, it’s about Christ. For non-Christians, it is about peace and love and joy and fun and gift giving and food and just good stuff. It’s secular AND it’s religious and sometimes it’s even a dessert topping.
So have yourself a merry little Christmas…just don’t drag me into it.
I think we are good, Diogenes. May you and your wife have a wonderful holiday. (virtual hand shake)
I think we are good, Diogenes. May you and your wife have a wonderful holiday. (virtual hand shake)
Exactly! Thanks.