How is the US the enemy of Russia? Because it spearheaded sanctions after Ukraine meddling and jacking Crimea?
If Russia has not engaged in that aggressive move then it would not have sanctions, so why place the onus on the US vs Russian actions?
Is Russia pissed off that some of its former client states on its border have nato troops? How does that threaten Russia? I’m asking? Does Russia think those states want to invade Russia? And if not, how is having nato presence there a threat to Russia? IF the threat is that it makes it harder for Putins Russia to exert influence and control and do what they did in Ukraine… I fail to see how that is our issue rather than Russia being pissed off we made it harder for them to bully its neighboring states.
You sound like a Russian hack, but perhaps you will answer those questions.
I think of Russia as an unfriendly nation who is pursuing national goals that are at odds with America’s, from trying to drive a wedge between NATO nations to promoting tensions between US and China to their efforts to push back the spread of democracy in the world. My undergrad degree is in Russian studies and I’ve lived and worked there, but I don’t know that I can precisely date when I came to this conclusion, certainly by the end of Yeltsin’s era.
Quite literally no one has said this. You’re desperately trying to fit this argument into a narrative no one is following.
No one’s denying the USA has a history of interfering in the affairs of other countries. Did the USA occupy the Phillippines? Support an insurgency against an elected government in Nicaragua? Prop up dictators in any number of countries? Yes, yes, and yes. One hundred percent true, and all those actions were morally suspect or, simply put, wrong.
So fine. We agree on this. Now let’s talk about Russia under Putin. Is in, in fact, that case that Russia is doing precisely the things the USA did that you describe as “Sordid”? It is the case. Russia’s invasions of Ukraine are disgusting by any reasonable standard. no matter that you claim Nazis took over the Ukrainian government (which they did not.) Their interference in the US election was appalling and their disinformation campaign - or, to use the Russian term, maskirovka campaign - is as gigantic in scope as it is easily picked apart.
Yes, exactly. Cause: Putin’s thug gets kicked out of the Ukraine after shooting protesters and generally being a thug. Effect: Putin decides, hey, opportunity! Instead of having a hand puppet in charge I’ll just use that instability and the fact my puppet got kicked to grab the whole place as another province in the Empire…er, Federation! No one will notice!
Glad we cleared that up and you brought up the cause and effect thing. Did you want to go over cause and effect for the previous eastern block countries going from being under the Soviet boot to running as fast as they could and begging for inclusion in NATO? There seems to be some confusion on that as well, so if you’d like we could run through that next.
The best answer IMO. It’s not in this case or others directly relevant whether ‘the Russian people’ are ‘enemies’. The basic problem is how Putin has made it a necessary, though not sufficient, condition to succeed (ie ultimately die in bed, not up against a wall or in a prison) to act against US interests, as a pretty specific goal in itself.
This is in contrast to say Chinese leadership which does not particularly need to be at odds with the US to further its goals. It could very well end up that way, but doesn’t need to be. China has the inherent ability to grow into a great power in an ‘additive’ process. Russia doesn’t, especially under the kleptocracy Putin is deepening, and can only gain, as Putin has made necessary for himself by his own ‘founding myth’, by tearing at the world order, thus US interests as the main status quo power.
But it’s still not strictly about personalities. The system which spawned Putin could easily come up with somebody even worse if he’s deposed.
Well, gosh, doesn’t that apply to everything? Why did the U.S. support terrorists in Nicaragua? Cause and effect! Why did Belgium murder people in the Congo? Cause and effect? Why did China invade Tibet? Cause and effect! Nothing’s in a vacuum. Of course it’s cause and effect, going all the way back past the dawn of history. You can trace causes and effects from the American invasion of Grenada back to the Thirty Years’ War if you like, no problem.
Why this excuse falls apart is that you choose the effect you throw after a cause. Russia did not have to invade Crimea or eastern Ukraine. They were not attacked, and Ukraine does not represent a credible threat to Russian sovereignty in any way. Putin chose to do those things (and is responsible for a lot of the causes, might I add.) If you want the United States to take responsibility for its actions, great; Russia must do the same. They made a choice.
My first inclination is to issue a warning for this, but as **Latro **has already gotten one warning in this thread it seems excessive for what can be construed as a borderline case.
Desist from calling other posters hacks of any kind.