Americans: Please explain "mail fraud" to a Limey

[lucwarm]

*Originally posted by Northern Piper *
Not quite. It wouldn’t be mail fraud because there is no fraudulent aspect, but you’re on the right track.

I’m not sure I agree with this. After all, the anthrax mailer put a phoney return address on one of the mailings.

It’s true that the mailings were not fraudulent in the traditional sense of attempting to cheat people out of money or property.

In reality I doubt that federal prosecutors would bother charging the guy with mail fraud. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the mailings were a technical violation of the statute.

[Northern_Piper]

Well, I’m not an American lawyer, so I’m just going by the bare words of the statute, but I don’t think that just putting a false address on an envelope constitutes mail fraud.

Mail fraud is set out in Title 18, Part I, Chapter 63 of the United States Code. Sec. 1342 deals with fictious names and addresses:

Sec. 1342. - Fictitious name or address

Whoever, for the purpose of conducting, promoting, or carrying on by means of the Postal Service, any scheme or device mentioned in section 1341 of this title or any other unlawful business, uses or assumes, or requests to be addressed by, any fictitious, false, or assumed title, name, or address or name other than his own proper name, or takes or receives from any post office or authorized depository of mail matter, any letter, postal card, package, or other mail matter addressed to any such fictitious, false, or assumed title, name, or address, or name other than his own proper name, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both

So to me, it looks like it’s only a crime to use a fake address in the mail if it’s for the purpose of committing an offence unde § Sec. 1341. - Frauds and swindles. That section provides:

Sec. 1341. - Frauds and swindles

Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, or to sell, dispose of, loan, exchange, alter, give away, distribute, supply, or furnish or procure for unlawful use any counterfeit or spurious coin, obligation, security, or other article, or anything represented to be or intimated or held out to be such counterfeit or spurious article, for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice or attempting so to do, places in any post office or authorized depository for mail matter, any matter or thing whatever to be sent or delivered by the Postal Service, or deposits or causes to be deposited any matter or thing whatever to be sent or delivered by any private or commercial interstate carrier, or takes or receives therefrom, any such matter or thing, or knowingly causes to be delivered by mail or such carrier according to the direction thereon, or at the place at which it is directed to be delivered by the person to whom it is addressed, any such matter or thing, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.

I would conclude it’s only an offence under § 1341 if there’s a fraudulent purpose of some kind, which means that it’s only an offence under § 1342 to give a false address if you do so to advance a fraudulent scheme.

[voguevixen]

Originally posted by owlstretchingtime *
**
If I placed an advert saying “send me money and I will make you richer” in the press and people sent me cash, that would be mail fraud?*

Yes, if you in fact did nothing to make them richer.

**

Where does the internet come into this then? Is it mail fraud to rip someone off over the web?**

If any part of your transaction takes place via the USPS, yes. If you manage to conduct the entire transaction online (via PayPal or wire transfer of money) then I’m not entirely sure.

**

What happens if someones were to send something that is legal in one state to someone in a state where that something is illegal?**

Very illegal. For instance there are certain fireworks that are illegal in California unless you are a licensed technician of some sort. (Most of them actually. If it travels or explodes it’s illegal, leaving us pretty much sparklers and those cones that shower colored sparks.) People were ordering them online from other states by just clicking “Yes, I’m a licensed pyrotechnician” or whatever. In this instance I believe both parties are guilty of mail fraud (using the USPS to circumvent laws.) In the instance I heard about, the fireworks companies were using a return address such as “ABC Toys” or something misleading so the fireworks would get through, so they fall under the category of ficticious address/business name. (Sorry I don’t have a linkable cite for this, it was at a local meeting at our city hall when there was a discussion about banning all fireworks. There might be minutes online someplace but being a podunk town I’m guessing not.)

[glee]

Apparently (I’m not a lawyer) it’s legal here to advertise as follows:

'Send me £10 and I will show you a way to make money!"

You reply to each mug (keeping their money), saying ‘put an advert in, just like I did…’

Would this work in the US?

[voguevixen]

*Originally posted by glee *
**Apparently (I’m not a lawyer) it’s legal here to advertise as follows:

'Send me £10 and I will show you a way to make money!"

You reply to each mug (keeping their money), saying ‘put an advert in, just like I did…’

Would this work in the US? **

This is the basis of the ads that say “Make $1000 a week stuffing envelopes!” You send them a specified amount of money and they send you a photocopy of how to post ads in papers and then they say “now photocopy this page and mail it to them!” I think this falls under the category of “chain letters” which are illegal. The reason so many people get away with it is the amount of money is usually small, so it goes unreported and the fact that there are so many people doing it it’s near impossible to catch them all.

From http://www.usps.com/websites/depart/inspect/chainlet.htm

Do not be fooled if the chain letter is used to sell inexpensive reports on credit, mail order sales, mailing lists, or other topics. The primary purpose is to take your money, not to sell information. “Selling” a product does not ensure legality. Be doubly suspicious if there’s a claim that the U.S. Postal Service or U.S. Postal Inspection Service has declared the letter legal. This is said only to mislead you. Neither the Postal Service nor Postal Inspectors give prior approval to any chain letter.

(bolding mine)

[Tranquilis]

quote:

Where does the internet come into this then? Is it mail fraud to rip someone off over the web?

If any part of your transaction takes place via the USPS, yes. If you manage to conduct the entire transaction online (via PayPal or wire transfer of money) then I’m not entirely sure.

Actually, I think Wire Fraud comes to play here, unless some portion fo the transaction is conducted via USPS, in which case it’s Prosecutor’s Choice: Mail- or Wire-Fraud, or maybe both…