I was happy with some countries and not others. Italy seemed friendly enough on a one-to-one level (helping with directions, courtesy at hotels, small talk on trains), but rude in more high-traffic situations - pushy crowds, impatient clerks and rude waiters.
Austria, Switzerland, Netherlands seemed very relaxed, Germany more hectic but still polite.
Eastern europeans seemed really not to want to deal with travelers at all, even we could communicate in German or Russian.
I think you misunderstand. It’s not that my parents think that Europeans are still Nazis. Far from it. But neither do they think it’s somehow built into their culture to be more socially advanced, which seems to be the current meme. Right now, they would be the first to agree, Europeans seem to be moving forward faster than Americans. In general, that pleases my parents (although they wish American would follow along). But who can tell how long that trend will continue? After all, they’re just people, and people have done both wonderful and terrible things. In fifty or one hundred years, the situation in Europe, or America for that matter, might be vastly different. And given my parents personal, specific experience, they just don’t trust that the current situation in Europe will stay that way forever.
I’m not as jaded as they are, but I do understand them.
Ed
Well, from what I hear Britain is the image of tolerance compared to say, France. I don’t know otherwise.
This recent U.S. State Department report on global anti-Semitism makes interesting (and disturbing) reading, with particular attention to attitudes in Europe. For instance, take the entry for Spain:
"The Jewish community reported incidents of verbal harassment, vandalism of synagogues and Jewish community institutions, and increasing anti-Semitic sentiment in newspaper commentary and at sporting events. Local officials were accused of sharing anti-Jewish views. Members of the Jewish community have said that they fear identifying themselves or wearing their traditional Kippa because it could make them a target for attacks…Officials from B’nai B’rith suggested there was an increasing anti-Semitic tone in newspaper commentary and political cartoons as well as public displays of anti-Semitism at major sporting events. They cited the example of a soccer game held in Madrid following the March 11 train bombings. Some participants at the game wore swastikas and other Nazi emblems and displayed a banner with an anti-Semitic epithet.
Jewish officials in Catalonia reported that local officials were insensitive to anti-Jewish sentiment and expressed the view that anti-Semitism was openly present in government institutions. One example was the placement of a Star of David side-by-side with a swastika on a City Hall Web page. Jewish representatives in Barcelona approached local government officials requesting the symbol be removed. City officials removed the symbols without explanation and did not apologize for the incident."
It’s hard to imagine this sort of bigotry against any group being tolerated in the U.S.
Not that I think bigotry can be generalized as severe in Europe. But there are large elements that could learn from relative American tolerance toward racial and ethnic differences.
I don’t get European Anti-Semitism at all. Why don’t they like Jews? I’ve known a lot of Jews, dealt with them in business, have a lot of close friends who are Jews, and I can think of certain things about them that I dislike about individuals, but I can’t see anything that I truly disapprove of as a people.
I just don’t get it.
History I expect.
I don’t either…though the gods know there are anti-semites in the US as well (though thankfully not as many as seem to be in Europe).
-XT
As an American living in Europe, I would have to say that I love it here and would never want to move back to the States. Of course, there are also many European countries I wouldn’t necessarily want to live in either. You would need to be more specific. Europe isn’t exactly tiny. And each country is different.
I love Holland, I love my city, my home and the people around me. It takes a while to get used to, because it is different, but I love that, too.
I love the fact that everyone has health insurance and I don’t have to worry about the fact that if I’m sick as hell, I don’t have to worry about not being covered if I need to go to the hospital. I love the fact that my skin color doesn’t matter to anyone here. No one cares, and if you want to talk about how tolerant Americans are towards ethnic differences, I can give you some scary examples of “otherwise”. I love the fact that when I try to speak Dutch, people will either try to tolerantly speak back to me in Dutch, or they will recognize my accent and politely switch to English (even if I don’t want them to). I love the fact that the swastika isn’t allowed here and people encourage integration.
In short, I love my new country. I love my new continent. And I want to stay.
Just to clear up some confusion from my OP and then I’ll get back out of the way. I know that Europe is a big, diverse place. I’ve been there many times and actually stayed in several countries doing IT work for months at a time. I wasn’t looking necessarily for generalities but for specifics, insites and comments about individual countries and peoples of Europe.
I suppose my OP SHOULD have said all this but I thought my putting ‘Europe’ in quotes would convey that, as well as my invitation for European’s to discuss their own countries and other countries they have visited or have insites into…but obviously I failed to convey all this.
So, American’s (and European’s)…what do you think about the countries you’ve visited, the people there, the food, etc etc.
-XT
Europe is a weird beast. I admire a lot of things about this place but I figure I’ll chime in on the integration debate first, since it’s really interesting.
The parts of Europe that do poorly in integration (Denmark for example) expect the immigrants to assimilate. However, from my experience this never happens. It seems that successful immigration almost always results in people coming together to some point in the center. Did the Italian or Irish or German immigrants adopt American culture, or did we all become a little more Italian, German, or Irish? I’d say the latter. But here in Denmark, there isn’t much willingness of the Danes to meet them in the middle. And of course the foreigners are a bit pissed off by that, so they act out and exacerbate the situation. Not that Americans are specifically noble in that regard. America had never been founded on helping people so much that it simply started out as a country for immigrants. That eventually got shut down though.
Nobody in New York looks around and says, "Hey I love being multicultural. Because in the end, you’re not being multicultural in New York by eating shawarma or whatever kinds of ethnic food you like, because that’s simply being a New Yorker.
Finally my opinion about Europeans? Well for me (a white American male) it’s generally not a problem at all. I really do like it here. I like a lot of things that simply don’t exist in America. In Denmark, especially, there is such a high level of education among the general populace. Or maybe it’s simply less stupidity. In America, even in college, you run into people and you think, “Jesus you’re fucking stupid!” I suppose this is attributable to open-mindedness.
That’s what I really dig about most European states, though, is the feeling of open-mindedness. Europe is more about cooperation than competition. America is big on competition, and it annoys me at times. In Denmark it isn’t about who has the best clothes etc. Most people here ride bikes.
As for the per-country breakdown? Well, here goes.
English: Depends on where they’re from, I’ve never been but met tons of them. I am generally unimpressed with our Transatlantic bretheren most of the time (sorry!) but they do have a lot more culture than we do, so I suppose you’ve got that thing going for you.
France: One of my favorites but I never lived there. It’s got a beautiful and varied countryside, plus the food is top-notch in my opinion. You don’t get better food. French are often accused of being arrogant, etc, but I think it’s another quality that is being misread. If you’re an overly optimistic type, sure a Frenchman will probably balk at the topic or something else, but it’s a bit of a national obsession for the French to appear brooding, maybe? It’s hard to put into words, exactly. I imagine the French enjoying the ups and their downs equally. But for all of the Anti-Americanism reputation they have, they are really one of the most pro-American countries I can think of. Inside all Frenchmen like America. It’s a love hate relationship.
Dutch. Never lived there but known a few. I like the Dutch generally. They are open-minded and generally fun to be around. They don’t seem to suffer from the angst of the Germanfolk.
The Germans…oh the Germans…I’d probably better not, but they are a strange bunch. Very self-righteous in their dealings with new Americans. But my crazy-ass ex GF was german, so I’m afraid I can’t comment further.
Spain. Spain is great. Loads of friendly people. And it’s got a crazy economy now. It’s changing at a lightning fast pace. When I lived there it was 2002 and since I’ve been back I’ve seen loads of changes. Although I have a feeling that family life there is simply too strong for my liking. I love my family and all, but I need some space.
Scandinavians? They do differ. Hell the people from Jutland are very different from those in Zealand (copenhagen) but they don’t generally inspire much emotion from me. The girls are very pretty and well-maintained. There’s hardly any crime either.
I’d recommend a series of books called the Xenophobe’s guides for anyone seriously interested. It is steeped in broad-brush generalizations, but the truth of that is that these things are normal. When you live somewhere long enough you realize that this is normal. Hell, living in a foreign country will frustrate you with the SMALLEST consequence. I get livid about Danish toasters. Also, don’t get me started on the mayonnaise .
Out of curiosity, why is this in GD instead of IMHO? Is there actually a debate here? 
Okay. Speaking for myself, I’m very much a Europhile. I’ve spent quite a few years of my life over there (as an Army brat, studying abroad, and working abroad), and those times add up to probably the best parts of my life. I love the cities, the landscape, the towns, the people, the history (good and bad), the life. I could happily move to any one of a dozen European countries without a second thought…
It’s not all perfect, by any means. Like some other people have mentioned here, Europeans (talking primarily Western Europeans here) can have an insufferable arrogance and rudeness, especially, it seems, towards Americans. I have been appalled at some of the comments I’ve heard: for a people who are stereotyped as being quite refined and genteel, Europeans can be amazingly rude.
Also…I can’t quite justify this, but I do get a sinking feeling when thinking about Europe that its time has passed. It just sometimes feels a bit too much like a museum, you know? (See this recent article for more information.) In a global sense, it doesn’t feel to me like the place where things happen, where great deeds are done, where history is made. Maybe it’s reached the mythical “end of history” – and if so, maybe it’s a good thing, but it can also be…boring. If I was a man of greater ambitions, I don’t think I’d want to move to Europe as much. Don’t get me wrong: I’m not among those who are predicting Europe’s imminent demise. I suspect it will be a peaceful and prosperous place for a long time to come. But it seems a bit too complacent, impotent, living too much off its past successes. Again, don’t ask me to justify this – just an impression I have.
I should mention that my feelings towards Europe are not by any means representative of most Americans. (I think overall you’ll get more Europhiles on the SDMB than in the general population.) I sometimes think Europeans assume Americans have a higher regard for them than most of us actually do. I think for a lot of Americans Europe is a nice place to visit, but they wouldn’t want to live there: too crowded, too stuffy, too racist, too boring, etc. I’ve lately realized that to a lot of Americans of a certain age (maybe 55+?) Europe stills seems the place it was when they were children, when it was a much poorer place, still recovering from war, weak, dependent on the US, and full of people eager to immigrate to the US. I think to people of that mindset it was a great shock to see the massive wave of anti-Americanism sweeping the continent in the past several years. (And yes, there was a lot of anti-Americanism, not just anti-Iraq War sentiment, as is often disingenuously claimed.) I think that shock has given way to some bitterness and resentment – I wouldn’t be surprised if Americans overall are less favorably disposed to Europe today than they were 10 years ago.
And this comment is also very pertinent to the persistence of European antisemitism. It, again, has to do with the nearly pan-European attitude toward the “other” in the midst. An “other” that maintains that otherness as part of their identity is never really accepted. Jews, even though most may be nearly entirely secular, are judged by the fact that some are not so secular. Some maintain a clear identification as Jews even while embracing their Frenchness or Britishness. As such the group continues to be viewed as guests in a host country, but not really full members. Same with Muslims and with the Roma.
Again, the comparison to American attitudes is most cogent: Americans embrace their hyphenated natures and those without hyphens almost feel deprived. Multiple simultaneous group identitifications is an American norm, not a cause for suspicion and distrust, as it is through much of Europe. Even in this age of the EU, diversity is America’s strength, and Europe’s annoyance.
There’s nothing stopping anyone from living and working pretty much anywhere in North America. Canada, the U.S., and Mexico might as well not have borders.
Not true. The Japanese were attacking the British and Dutch in the Far East before they ever attacked the United States. And the war between China and Japan that began in the 1930s is commonly regarded as part of WWII, if not a decisive theater.
Tell me this, how could it be classed as a world war if the USA were not involved in the fighting until after Pearl
Who said it was rosy? All I said was that the national government allowed it to exist; the fiercest opposition to the Civil Rights movement came from state and local governments or organizations. George Wallace was a state governor, Bull Connor was a municipal police chief. Most Klansmen were local people operating in their own communities. The relative lack of coordination among organizations that opposed the Civil Rights movement is one reason the movement succeeded.
Federal agents weren’t out there cracking skulls and using firehoses; quite the contrary. It was National Guardsmen called out by the federal government (President Eisenhower) that integrated schools in Little Rock and elsewhere in the 1950s. The ultimate tools in the battle were decisions by the national court (Brown V. Board of Education, 1954) and federal legislation (the Civil Rights Act of 1964).
As for “not recognis(ing) this picture of authoritarian, illiberal government you are painting,” perhaps you want to have a chat with the Irish. I’m sure they can give you a different point of view. Or read Robert DeNiro’s account of being interrogated by the French police. (He subsequently swore he would never return to France.) Or read about what difficulties the families of the dead encountered trying to get the real story out after the massacre of Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics in 1972.
I’m not implying things are uniformly bad across Europe, but I do know the United States’ system in many ways was purposely designed to be what Europe is not. It’s a relative comparison I’m making, not an absolute one. Relatively speaking, I think the organs of state–courts, the police, the bureacracy–are more open and more responsive to the public in the U.S. than in most places in Europe. And that was the goal.
I wasn’t aware that “trying to request government documents, being stopped by the police, being hauled into court, having a legal dispute with the government or a big company, or openly espousing extreme political views” was problematic in Ireland either, but as I said I was talking about Britain anyway. I guess you were having a dig about Brirain’s brutal oppression of the Irish and all that, but I thought this was a discussion about present-day Europe. Anyone can open a history book and dredge up a country’s past misdeeds.
Because it was waged in theatres all over the world. Not that the entire world, which as a point of new information consists of more than just the USA, took part.
Eh… at a guess here those guys at the Real Madrid match were the Ultra Sur… they’re neonazis and not antisemitic but anti-everybodybutme-itic. As for the appearance of a swastika and a star of David in the webpage of a city hall, my own city hall had those together once… when the town’s museum was holding a show on the Holocaust. So from the data given I think some people have a blood pressure problem.
Up until the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor which brought the USA into the war I still maintain that WW2 was not a world war.
How could it be classed as such without the involvment of the US?
At least I don’t think it could, I may be wrong however.
chowder, if a war needs to involve every country before it’s called “world”, then neither one was a world war; I’m reasonably sure that you don’t think it’s “world” only if one specific country is involved (i.-e., if it involved every country but that one, it wouldn’t be “world”). I think what you may be trying to say is that it didn’t include every continent, but maybe our Canadian dopers would disagree with you. Only 'cos there’s less of them don’t mean they don’t exist 