An apology and thanks from formerly suicidal Benzo-addict Valteron

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

First of all, I want to clearly explain that I am not looking for medical or psychiatric advice on SDMB. I am already getting it from appropriate professionals.

However, if you go do a search for “Valteron” and “suicide” you will see that a few months ago, I was posting some thinly-veiled threads that were ostensibly a discussion of suicide as a social phenomenon but were in fact expressions of my own desire to off myself. Many kind people helped talk me out of it.

The feeling was extremely puzzling because I have everything to live for. I am well off, healthy, educated, and have no apparent problems at all in my life.

I have finally realized what was causing this: It was my regular use of Clonazepam, which is a BENZODIAZEPINE. Clonazepam is in the same class of drugs as Valium.

It was only when I went to this site about Benzo rehab that I realized what was happening to me. I am now weaning myself off them as recommended on this site, and all my suicidal and depressive feelings have disappeared.

The funny thing is that I was prescribed these by my doctor.

I would like to thank everyone who put up with me during that time, until my eyes were opened, and to apologize for abusing the SDMB that way.

But in the meantime, it might be interesting to have a debate on these. Do we really have enough control over perfectly legal but dangerous mood-altering drugs? Are a lot of doctors really just dope pushers?

Should we educate people that doctors are not infallible gods, and that just because they prescribe something does not mean you are not a dope addict?

Are these powerful modern drugs loaded guns that kill as many people are real guns, by provoking depression and suicide?

Does society really understand what it is doing wih these drugs?

2

First of all, it is good to hear you didn’t off yourself and have found the root of the problem.

Years ago I went the doctor for a minor wound and ended up breaking down and crying in her office. (I was going through a divorce at the time). She prescribed Prozac, without ever really trying to see if I really needed it.
Worst.idea.ever.
I took me a few months to realize that this drug was making me feel worse that I was before.

3

Welcome back.

:cool:

4

I think a lot more education should be done about “side effects” of drugs. (As a teacher once told me, “There are no side effects, only effects.”) I’ve had several things prescribed to my kids lately with no mention of possible side effects - even after I asked the doctors what possible side effects could be. I had to know about the possibilities to get confirmation:

“Are there any side effects I should look for?”
“No.”
“Gee, doc, I’m glad my baby can breathe again. Is albuterol a stimulant, and might it make her jittery? Should I watch for it, and if it happens, not give it to her right before bedtime?”
“…”

(Answers, “yes, yes, yes and yes”) No mention of the increased possibility of fungal infections in the mouth from the inhaler. No mention that it can cause diarrhea (THAT was a fun series of diapers!) Same thing with two acne medications and a bedwetting medication, hormonal birth control, sleep aids, etc.: all from different doctors to different patients in my immediate family.

I understand that they don’t want to scare people with an inflated sense of danger out of taking a drug that could benefit them. The chance for some of these side effects is pretty small. But, as you know first hand, statistics are meaningless if you’re in the small percent of people afflicted.

Most people won’t ask their doctors twice. Most won’t know enough about the general possibilities to ask specifics like I did. Most won’t bother or know how to read the patient information packet that comes with their prescriptions. Most people think their doctor is the bestest, brightest thing ever, Yahweh descended who can do no wrong and nothing bad can ever happen to them. I’m not saying doctors are incompetent, I’m saying they’re human. They make human assumptions and human errors and we should view them as human sources of information, but ultimately we’re responsible for our own health.

So, yeah. My vote is better patient education and less deification of doctors. I’m all for informed consent, and I think more drugs should be available to an educated populace, but it’s hard to get full information out of a guy you’re in awe of who has thirteen other patients he’s late for and doesn’t want to spend time reading you an information packet.

A side issue is the availability of new drugs without good *physician *education. The same doc who gave me the inhaler for the baby also gave me a hoodgiewhatsit mask and tube to puff the inhaler into (since the baby won’t use a grown-up mouthpiece). I asked her specifically if I needed to wash it and was it dishwasher safe and she said no, it didn’t need to be washed. She also said they “just got these in” from the drug rep. I got home (after giving her one dose with it in the office) to read the instructions and find that I was supposed to wash it in hot soapy water before use, it is dishwasher safe, and it should be home-sterilized (very hot water or dishwasher) at least once a week. :smack:

Still, even I know the link between some mental meds and suicidal thoughts. If your doctor didn’t, there’s a huge problem. If he did and didn’t tell you, that’s an even bigger problem.

5

I personally think that patients should take some responsibility for their own health-care, in the sense that they should read the patient information from the pharmacy, or ask the doctor, or ask the pharmacist about drugs they are prescribed. But I also agree that doctors are a little free with meds when it comes to some conditions, choosing to prescribe when they could (possibly) treat in other ways.

I’m really glad you figured out your problem and are getting better.

6

Link doesn’t work for me.

7

Last night, I got a refill on the Prozac I take for depression (in my case, it really does help). I also got a four-page information sheet with info about side effects and warning signs of problems when kids take it. (The standard information sheet I get from Kaiser about medications is one page)

8

Thanks for this thread, Valteron. We’ve clashed before, but I think you’re usually a very interesting poster, and your threads about suicide were really puzzling to me. I’m glad you found out what was causing it and solved the problem.

9

Someone has pointed out that the link I gave for Benzo rehab does not work. Here is the site, then: http://www.benzos.net/

10

Thanks for the kind words, all. But let me explain just what was happening with the Clonazepam. It does not actually cause the depression and suicidal thoughts. So in all fairness I cannot claim that is an effect of the drug.

It is the *withdrawl symptoms * of Clonazepam that include those feelings. And I had developed those withdrawl symptoms without knowing it. That is what makes it frightening and why I want to warn other people.

It does indeed say on the bottle that you should not cease taking them without medical advice.

So why did I stop, you ask? In fact, I did not. That is the problem. In the first year or two of taking exacly the same amount, I felt fine. But after reading the info on the site I gave above and here http://www.benzos.net/ for benzo rehab, I realize that what was happening last spring, summer and fall was what that site refers to as withdrawl symptoms caused by increased tolerance to the drug.

After two years, your body gets so tolerant that you start to experience withdrawl symptoms because your body reacts as if you were taking less of the stuff.

At that point, one way to remedy this would have been ever-higher doses over the years (not a good idea).

The other solution was to break out. Once I realized what was happening to me I put the lid on suicidal talk and thoughts, stopped going to suicide web sites, cut out caffeine, increased exercise, started talking to a psychologist and started a program of cutting down the dope a little every week.

I am now down to very low doses and I hope to throw the blasted things away for good within a week or two.

For the first time in months I am feeling pleasure, pain, sorrow, happiness, and yes, even anxiety, which I have to deal with in the normal way of sane people. It is good to be back.

But do you see what I mean when I say that this increased tolerance withdrawl symptom is a very subtle thing that it would be hard to describe to patients?

11

I’m glad you’ve identified the problem and are feeling better. I was never especially annoyed by you before, but happy people are generally more enjoyable to be around, so cheers.

12

Very, very glad to hear that you are feeling better.

Regards,
Shodan

13

I had wondered what became of you. I can’t tell you how happy I am about this outcome - not just that you didn’t take your own life but that you now no longer want to.

14

It’s good to hear that you are doing better. I did want to isolate and emphasize this quote, though.

Benzodiazepines are Schedule IV controlled substances in the U.S. By that definition, they are only mildly addictive.

That designation is a horrible oversight, since these medications can be insanely addictive. Googling for “Xanax withdrawal” returns over a million hits and a lot of nasty stories. A search for “Provigil withdrawal” (another Schedule IV drug) yields only a few thousand hits, almost none of them relevant.

One month I ran out of my Xanax prescription two days early. I could not eat. I could not sleep. I had hot sweats and cold sweats. Walking around made me dizzy. I saw spots in front of my eyes. Minutes felt like hours, hours like days. Just sitting around the house made me so anxious that I felt like someone was holding a gun to my head.

I don’t want to be on this stuff for long enough to end up in your situation, Valteron. I’ve decided to ask my doctor to start weaning me off of my meds, anxiety be damned. It’s just not worth it.

IANAD and this is not medical advise, but I’d strongly suggest that anyone thinking of going on benzodiazepines to fully research them and understand the risks before starting treatment.

15

It gets better. Really, it does. I’ve learned to just embrace all those feelings. We can only grow and learn from the points you enumerate.

I don’t know you Valteron, nor your past since I’m a newbie here, but I can empathize with the subject of withdrawal.

16

I took Clonazepams for years, no more than seven a day just like my doctor prescribed, along with some other meds for my mental health. He called me to his office one day to say that he was moving on, after I had seen him for a few years. I found another doctor that picked up the diagnosis where the other one left off in order toget the meds that I was told I would need to get by except that he didn’t prescribe narcotics, particularly benzos. I did quite well without Clonazepam and I started wondering what other meds. I reasoned that mental illness is, by definition, all in the head. I quit taking resperidal because it was expensive. I realize that the voices I think I hear sometimes are not real so they do not count, they amuse me. Two years ago I asked my doctor what would happen if I quit taking lithium and he looked at me and said, quite frankly, “I do not know.” I halved my dose until I wasn’t taking it any longer. I don’t take an aspirin now, if I can help it. I pay attention to what I think and feel, if things go badly I look to the past for the lie that someone told me or that I told myself, or I ask someone I trust, “Is it reasonable to think like (insert idea here)”. I now consider myself “mentally well”, I hope you do too.

As a nation we are conditioned to believe that there is a pill for every condition. My wife believed this and she is dead because of it. Welcome back to the world Valteron.

17

What were you prescribed Clonazepam for in the first place?

18

I’m glad to hear you’re feeling better.

19

I was originally prescribed Clonazepam because I had trouble sleeping, which was due to the stress of a life change. I had just retired and started my new part-time career. Although it was a change for the better financially and in every other way (I actually have more total income than when I was working full-time) there is a huge bump you have to get over with a life change like that.

In fairness to my doctor, he gave me a prescription for only 20 one-mg. pills a month and told me only to take them when I needed to. But I did not listen and took to taking one pill or half a pill every night. That way I could make the 20 last 30 days.

It may not sound like a lot, but I was amazed to learn that Clonazepam is 25 times more powerful than Valium.

20

First of all there’s another Benzo support site, a British one: http://www.benzo.org.uk/. They also have a forum. They’re big on switching to a slower-acting benzo, maybe Valium I think, to help with withdrawal.

A member of my immediate family had a minor injury of sorts, say a car accident or maybe an on-the-job injury. It put them out of work at the time. Over a few years they got worse. They couldn’t walk right, see right or anything. Ended up almost dying. I saw horrors, shit you don’t want to see someone go through. Turns out it was all the drugs. The problems walking, hallucinations everything. Dementia due to drug toxicity.

We didn’t know this until afterwards, but the person was on more than 8 mg Klonopin a day. The max for a person with epilepsy, which they didn’t have, is 20mg. The max for “panic attacks” is 4 mg/day so it was more than a double dose. This along with shitloads of other drugs.

Now the person is much better. Driving a car, working a bit. At least 85 or 90% there mentally. Just on one antidepressant; I hope that’s not forever.

The psychiatrist is still working.