I’ll scale back “racist” to “intolerant”. Eve has made some remarks that didn’t sit well with me, that’s all. Like this, where she seems to think that “urban” is some kind of poor synonym for “black”. Because black people are all alike, don’t’cha know. And this, where she categorizes the members of a Pentecostal church as “insane”. To me, that is an extraordinary harsh label.
But I won’t back off on the other charges, and I won’t apologize.
Two three- or four-line references to a TV show, where Eve could possibly be in the right? Fuck if I know, I don’t watch whatever garbage the thread is referring to. Maybe the bitch calling herself the Urban MS was just trying to use an ultra-PC label for black. Maybe the assholes in said church were acting like fucking nitwits.
You said:
Could you find the examples of that instead of a remark about a television show that only makes sense in the context of the show and the 12 people who watch it?
Seriously, if there’s proof of the statement you made (quoted above), I’d like to see it so I could judge for myself. I’ve looked through Eve’s posting history and didn’t see anything remotely like what you’re describing, but her history is huge and perhaps you have a better idea of where to find such cites. TIA.
I was thinking
“Listen close, listen hard
About Miss Violet Beauregard…
Chewing, chewing all day long.
Chewing, chewing all day long.”
It helped that I saw the movie for the 2nd time earlier tonight.
Well, she wasn’t. She was defining herself as a person, beyond her race.
Well, they weren’t. They were acting like the people at a church I go to sometimes with my friend. Which is why the comment rubbed me the wrong way.
Those were my examples. Wasn’t trying to convince anyone else, just expressing my opinion.
That’s just it: her posting history IS huge. And it’s the same thing over and over. She doesn’t like this or that or the other co-worker, and yet when her boss doesn’t appreciate her schtick, she’s being persecuted. She shows her ass with a child who was probably just bored out of her skull, having been dragged to a place where there was nothing for her to do, by adults who proceeded to ignore her, and was not doing anything terribly offensive in the grand scheme. She cops an attitude about one of the most noteworthy events in American sports, even after the reference is clarified for her. And it’s all because anything that doesn’t fit into her hermetically sealed world is unacceptable. Is this enough examples, or should I go on?
Mmm, looking it over, I’d call it “ignorant” more than “intolerant.” To someone who’s never attended or seen a Pentacostal service, I can imagine the extreme exhuberence and weeping and whatnot might seem quite OTT. And considering the tone of the thread, it seems likely that Eve was using a bit of the ol’ hyperbolic form of humor. (One may argue whether it was done successfully, but that’s subjective.)
Same thing with the Martha Stewart comment. To me it seemed more of an attempt to prick the balloon of that woman’s pretension. “Urban” has been overused as a euphemism for “Black,” and it’s doubly stupid when the people being called “urban” aren’t from a city.
All in all, it’s pretty hard to take any comments in those threads seriously. Cripes, it’s a discussion about Showbiz Moms & Dads, not a PBS Frontline documentary on religious rites and traditions throughout America. Who the hell doesn’t try to bring the snark on trashy reality show participants and everyone associated with 'em?
I’ll give you this: I do wish Eve had acknowledged any of the two or three people who gave her the 411 about the church services. That’s part of the ‘affected’ thing I sometimes see in her posts. At times it appears as if she just wants to make a witty comment or dole out information for others to react to, rather than engage in a discussion where she’s able to learn from others.
But that’s not exactly a unique quality on message boards, especially one like the SDMB where so many folks are used to being the smartest kid on the block.
Charges? Dang. Speaking of hyperbole… 
I do not think you understand what I was asking. I was asking for cites about Eve being racist/intolerant toward African-Americans and/or African-American culture, someone explaining certain cultural facets, and Eve continuing her ignorance. You gave me a cite of Eve making an offhand remark about a woman on a television show. Nowhere in that thread did anyone reply to Eve’s remark. I’ll quote you again:
I’m asking that you either provide a cite for Eve making a racist/ignorant post directed at African-Americans and/or their culture, being corrected, and insisting on her ignorance, or retract your accusation of racism/intolerance towards African-Americans.
You, of course, have to do neither, but I think it would reflect well on you to choose one or the other.
I said what I had to say. If you don’t find it sufficient, then you just don’t.
Wow. Good thing you were here to spot this one. This particular derailing. This one as opposed to all the others in the past, present, and doubtless the future. Good thing, too, that you’re hovering around this particular thread, admonishing dissent, closing the thread, opening it again. This particular thread would be too fragile otherwise, and might actually morph into a Pit thread. Now that everybody’s here walking on eggshells (except for those of us who are supportive of Eve), it should be a lot more highschoolishly fun. And thank god that Eve’s personal description does not include Republican or White Trash or Fundamentalist Christian any number of other descriptions distinguished by their sheer smearability. Otherwise, there might be a pile-on. And that’s certainly not something we want in the Pit.
You certainly don’t have to keep replying to me, but I wish you’d help me understand – you stated that Eve made certain posts about African-Americans or African-American culture and was corrected, only to willfully continue in ignorance. I’d like to see the posts in question. I attempted to do the work for you, but I can’t find them due to Eve’s extensive history.
You haven’t offered sufficient evidence for your accusation, so how can I see it as anything but insufficient?
You witnessed said posts, so please – give me keywords, give me the topic that Eve brought up, give me the member that corrected her, give me a time frame to sort through Eve’s posts, give me the general rundown of what she said.
Or you can still retract your accusation of racism/intolerance toward African-Americans.
Er, that was for Rilchiam, not Liberal.
chatelaine, the posts I ref’d in #81 are two of many that have rubbed me the wrong way. They are the only two that have to do with race, but at this time in my life, I have more non-white friends than of my own race, and perhaps that makes me a bit oversensitive in that regard.
It’s all there in the linked threads. Yes, just those two threads; I don’t believe I said Eve had a history of constant race-baiting. If you don’t think those posts are worth getting upset about, then you just don’t. But I did, and still do. I really should have called her on it then, when they were new, but it wouldn’t have been appropriate in CS, and for whatever reason, I neglected to start a pit thread.
But what I wonder is, is it just the accusation of racism/intolerance that’s bothering you? Because I admit I pulled the pin on a grenade with that one, but the others are pretty cut-and-dried. Eve does have a pattern of looking down her nose, even sneering, at people who have interests she doesn’t share, and then tossing a remark like “My ass is not hoity toity; it’s hotsy-totsy” over her shoulder, leaving people to slap their knees and say, “Oh, Eve, you’ve got such a way with words, I can’t be mad at you!”
And she does have a way with words; I don’t deny that. But that doesn’t excuse her overwhelming air of superiority. If you can produce a cite for her ever saying, “That sounds interesting; I’ll have to check it out,” or “I didn’t think I was going to like this person who’s different from me, but I did,” I’d like to see it.
I’m sorry if I’m being truly dense here, but those cites didn’t prove what you say they do. Nowhere in the thread about the “Urban MS” did Eve make any remark on African-American culture or African-Americans in general. Nowhere in that thread did anyone correct Eve. Nowhere in that thread did Eve respond to anyone with a, “Don’t care, it’s still weird.” See what I’m saying here? That cite has nothing to do with what you said, which was:
As for the rest of your problems with Eve – I’ve got no beef. That’s not to say that I agree with you on it all or even most, but those opinions don’t bother me, per se. Why? Because I think racism is a heavier charge than snobbery about music or film tastes, or an obsession with dead film stars, or affectation.
OK, I asked that this thread be reopened so I could defend myself against certain charges. I certainly can’t defend myself against Fire Engine’s opinion of me as a repulsive transvestite who should not be allowed out in public. I’m not a transvestite, but of course there are many people who will never get that. And I know I am as homely as six miles of bad road; there’s nothing I can do about that except dress and groom myself to look as little like Margaret Hamilton as is possible.
But then Rilchiam comes hissing out of the woodwork–someone I’ve known for years and never had any run-ins with–and accuses me out of a clear blue sky of being “a snob [guilty and proud of it], a racist [not even close], mean to children [only when I have the chance], and generally narrow-minded and intolerant [on which subjects, exactly?], while having a very thin skin for slights against herself [and who doesn’t?].”
Rilch doesn’t " get or care for her shtick," which I think is the crux of the matter. In other words, she either doesn’t understand my allusions or simply doesn’t think I’m funny. How can I defend myself against tiny little slights she’s been saving up for goodness knows how long, or the jokes that have gone over her head? And why should I?
This is what I hate about Message Boards; you’re not playing to an invited audience. You’re walking through a “familiar” neighborhood, pleasantly chatting to people and suddenly those ravenous little boys from Suddenly, Last Summer are chasing you from out of nowhere, clanging their pots and plans together and pursuing you to your doom, while Elizabeth Taylor tries to act in the background.
Feh. I got better things to do than come here to be insulted. I can get insulted at work; they pay me for it.
As an Elizabeth Taylor fan, I resent your implication that she can’t act.
You insensitive twat.
See, this is what I didn’t think you took into account. Indeed, you are not playing to an invited audience. You’re communicating with people from all over the world, people with different experiences, different backgrounds, different points of view. People disagree with each other all the time around here. But when you have a difference of opinion with someone, or a group of someones, you wrap the coccoon of sophistication ever tighter around you, and never seem willing to add or subtract anything to or from your mindset. No offense, but you often seem like a living non sequitur. And if you’re okay with that, great. But if the “ravenous little boys” really do make you uncomfortable, perhaps you should occasionally stop clutching the pearls and make use of the stilettos instead.
Well, as long as you admit it.
All right, I fucking take back the racist charge, OKAY? But the next time I go to church, I’m gonna be crying and rocking and singing and getting happy, as I have before. And if that makes me insane, well, I thought you knew that already.
If that scene at the Algonquin really went down the way you said, you probably made an already unhappy little girl feel even worse. What was so terrible about her ringing a bell? She wasn’t running around screaming, or throwing food, or kicking her chair. The fact that she was unattended seems to indicate that she was dragged there and told she was on her own for a way to combat boredom. And what does she get? Some stranger’s “mean nanny” act. You really couldn’t have asked a staff member to deal with her instead?
The idea that good movies have been made since 1950. The idea that it’s okay for people to care deeply about sports. The idea that Pwincess Pwecious has her way of finding joy in life, and your objection to that makes you sound very much like the bitter old hag that you joke about being, but don’t have to be. And a lot of other stuff that I can’t think of right now. (Because, believe it or not, I don’t spend every waking moment nurturing resentment against you!)
Maybe you see it differently. You’re there and I’m not. But I can’t help seeing a pattern: you want Pwincess Pwecious to be silenced, you want the Fashion Harpy to be silenced, you want Miss Bang to be silenced. But when your boss doesn’t like your wisecracks, suddenly it’s terrible that someone wants you to be silenced.
I do get your schtick*. Your jokes do not go over my head. And I do/did like your style; heck, I enjoy a lot of the same stuff you do! But over time, appreciation for your style was slowly edged out by impatience with the “Well, really!” attitude that, to me, seems to indicate an unnecessary level of disdain for people who are just doing their thing, and not preventing you from doing yours.
There were just so many times when I wanted to respond to something or other that you’d said, but each time I thought, “Nah; I don’t want to derail a CS thread, and it’s not worth a Pitting.” (And a lot of times, I’m reading threads that are days or even weeks old, so that if I did respond, everyone would probably say, “Eh? She’s bumping the thread for this?”) So I’d forget about it, until the next time a post rubbed me the wrong way, and then another item would be filed in my subconscious.
But somehow, and I don’t expect you to understand how my beady little mind works, Go’s posts inspired a reaction of “Whoa, that’s WAY out of line…And why is s/he picking on Eve for that, when I’ve been wanting to say what’s on my mind for so long and I never have?”
For the record, I am not trying to insult you. I just wanted to get some stuff off my chest. I don’t hate you, or think that you’re some kind of monster. I just wanted to finally tell you that some of the things you say sting me, and not in an “Oh, she’s so witty!” way.
True: You’re not repulsive or a transvestite, nor unfit to be out in public. Again I say, Go was way out of line, and I’m beginning to regret not opening a separate thread so as to avoid association with hir.
No, you are not homely. And according to your TV appearance (which, granted, was a few years ago) you don’t look in the least like Margaret Hamilton. So cut that out! 
*I meant that your boss doesn’t seem to get or care for your schtick. Which seems a bit odd to me, in publishing, but maybe that wasn’t her chosen career; who knows.
To be fair, have you seen the scene in the movie Eve was speaking of? It wasn’t one of Elizabeth Taylor’s best scenes. (At least, not IMO.) If you weren’t serious, just pay me no mind.
Eve has chosen a role, a persona, for herself here. I have no idea how closely it comports with her real-life persona, and, frankly, don’t care. The Eve I interact with is the one that’s here. I find her witty and urbane. It’s true that if the subject is sports, she is unlikely to come charging into a thread with excitement, nor even with polite interest. It’s true that she suffers rudeness and ill-mannered fools less than gladly, and her yardstick for rude behavior seems to be drawn sometimes from a different era, as does her vocabulary in describing the offenders of the day.
What of it?!?
Must everyone evince a polite eagerness to learn something about subjects which bore them? What, objectively, is wrong with saying things along the line of sports don’t float her boat?
Most unseemly of all - and apparently now settled by mod intervention - is this tactic of attacking personal appearance. There is no winning such a contest - a lady should not be placed in the situation of making claims about her own beauty, regardless of whether she’s a Billie Burke or a Margaret Hamilton. And frankly, on a message board, I can think of nothing less relevant in any case.
The only charge of any merit - if true - was the cry of racism. As it should, this is a serious accusation in a world of ideas such as ours. And even dilued to “intolerant” it means something strongly negative.
If true.
That’s a big - and flimsy - “if”. The cites offered have done absolutely NOTHING to bolster the accusation; indeed, they have only diminished the credibility of the accuser. As De Niro’s Al Capone sneered, “You got nothin’! Nothin’!”
Unlike Capone, it’s true here.
I may not be an Eve Brigade member, but perhaps there is an Auxiliary I could join. Eve rocks. I like her muchly.
Heh, I was joking. She was hilariously horrible in that film, love her though I do.
Dammit, she looked good though.
If I may briefly hijack this thread back to its original subject:
Eve, the next time you find yourself trapped beside a slack-jawed gum-abuser, may I recommend the following? Cough. No, I mean cough. Begin with a ladylike kef-kef into a hanky. Follow with a hack-hack that makes you drop the hanky. Go on to an all-out throat-tearing HOCCCCCKKK-HOCCCCCKKKKK!!! into both hands, being careful to writhe so that the force of your expulsions is directed at the cud-chewer. If you can manage to lose your balance and fall towards the cow, hands outstretched, so much the better.
You will of course offer profuse apologies, interlarded with despairing pleas for modern medicine to some day find a cure – heck, even a diagnosis – for the malady that burdens you. Some carefuly calibrated whimpering might be effective.
I don’t think you’ll be bothered with your seatmate for very long.
What’s brown and schticky?