[rant] I started a different thread in GQ about general information on grafitti. But after stating my personal position on the matter, I was just belittled about it. So it quickly got moved to BBQ Pit, where the moderator managed to get in one last criticism before the thread was closed. [/rant]
Phew. So basically, I wanted to post in a place that would get both sides of this arguement included. I hope Great Debates is the right place for that. So are you for or against grafitti, and why/why don’t you support it?
I do not agree with “tagging” but artful graffiti is fine. There’s this beautiful picture of Bob Marley under this bridge near Newbury Street in Boston that I love to look at. If it’s not offensive (like swearing or like someone killing someone or shtuff like that), then it can be a very beautiful thing.
MY FAVORITE GRAFFITI STORY:
A graffiti artist was doing his art on the side of a restaurant. The restaurant owner caught him doing so, but he liked the graffiti so much, he paid the artist to finish it.
Heh. How you like that skribs? We’ll crush you like some rice cakes!
There you go. If you really have talent and want people to see your work, then do it legitimately.
If it’s not your property, leave it alone. Would you want someone to paint your house or your car? You don’t have a house or car? How about your jacket or your face?
If it doesn’t belong to you and you draw on it, you’re showing your true colors – self-centered, unimaginative and lazy.
Miser: Don’t you understand that the key here is PERMISSION? I have nothing against drawings. But if you want to draw something on MY HOUSE without permission, I’m gonna have you arrested.
How’d you like it if I started “improving” your private property? Say I thought your clothes would look better with large purple stripes. Or that your hair really ought to be died black and slicked back with mousse. If you WANTED your hair died black, and gave me PERMISSION to die your hair black, everyone is happy. If not, not.
Here’s a couple accepted rules, as outlined in “The Art of Getting Over: Grafitti in the Millenium” by Stephen Powers:
If you think about it, most graf is on big walls, public places, or nasty grimey places that most people don’t see anyway. People generally don’t graf on houses or cars, which seems to be a big part what people are opposed to. Just think about where (if you do) do you see the most grafitti.
I dunno. How come grafitti is a desecration and an eyesore but I’m forced to look at advertisements covering ever concievable surface and that’s just fine?
Yeah, I know, in that case the surface owner got paid and that makes it all right. From my point of view, it’s still uglier and more of a desecration of the world I’ve got to live in than most grafitti.
Granted, I’m not necessarily “for” graffiti, but I don’t see how these assumptions follow. Self-centered, maybe. But unimaginative? Certainly some graffiti shows some imaginative characteristics. And lazy? I just don’t see how you draw the connection. Clarify please?
Hmmm, I don’t really see the debate here - seems the general agreement is that it if isn’t your property, don’t go around painting your name in big bubble letters (or what have you) on it.
'Miser, I got annoyed by the concept of “grafiti” in and of itself simply because these vandals have the audacity to call themselves “artists”.
Art is neither painting Madonna in elephant dung nor making a few random splotches in an alley.
There are some talented grafiti artists out there, but they quickly realized the better way to go was to perform their work on their OWN property, or to obtain PERMISSION.
Did the world end last night? I agree 100% with DITW’s comment quoted.
To elaborate:
(1) “Tagging” is obviously a self-centered attempt at “impressing” others. How destroying the property value of other people’s property impresses them is beyond me, though.
(2) In my experience, taggers belong to some gang. This may not be true in your neighbourhood but it is true in my experience. Therefore taggers are showing how “impressive” their gang is.
(3) Gangbangers expect everyone on the planet to respect them; however, they obviously do not respect the people whose property they’re trashing with the lame paint jobs.
(4) People get shot for “dissing” gangbangers. Yet, many gangbangers think they should get a second chance when caught “dissing” people’s property, persons, etc.
In short…
GANGBANGERS/TAGGERS ARE LUNATICS AND/OR JACKASSES!
Oh, I left out…
TAGGING IS VANDALISM. THAT’S WHAT IT’S ABOUT AND THAT’S ALL IT IS.
Years ago, while in art school, I had a teacher, Barry, who did “graffiti” style art, with an airbrush. He often would do his art on the walls of Los Angeles, (with at least implied permission, if memory serves.) They were wonderful pieces of artwork, full of color and vibrancy. I developed an appreciation graffiti-style art because of what Barry showed us in class. I emphasize, what he did was art - he had a knowledge of color and line, and his work was pleasing to the eye. (No big bubble letters.)
One week Barry (a carefree hippie type) told us about a graffiti project he was doing, and he invited the whole class to join him. He said a friend told him of a building that needed some art on it, and (I believe) there was some sort of implication that the owner wouldn’t mind. But there was no formal permission given, and no permit issued by the city. But - hey - we figured it would be OK, because Barry had done this all so many times before. So many students joined him later that week, to paint the wall. However, I couldn’t make it, and I was a bit bummed out about it.
The next week, I found out the news. They had all been arrested!!! Someone had dropped the dime on them (so Barry suspected) because it seemed like the cops were just waiting for them. They had to go to jail and everything. A lot of my fellow students were rather straight arrows, so the experience was rather shocking for them. I was so glad I couldn’t make it. Getting arrested was a life experience I was glad to have missed.
I guess the moral of the story is - it’s just not worth it. Even when you think you are on the up-and-up and have permission. Get a permit before you paint anyone’s walls. And, besides, there’s no reason why you can’t just paint on canvas. That’s what Barry did - he did this big canvasses with airbrushed “graffiti” on them. Got them in galleries and everything.
Or, to continue what Spoofes had to say: more along the lines of what we see in the east side “this is my gangs territory, others will be killed”. How, exactly, is THAT art?
I live in California’s beautiful San Fernado Valley, which could well be called Graffitiville. Hey, some of it is beautiful, the work of talented people. It’s a shame this is how they express their art.
Most of the graffiti is horrid, even the stuff that’s not tagging. And contrary to ElusiveMiser’s opinion, they don’t mostly put on stuff people don’t see. They put it on the sides of business’s, schools, buses, bus stops, freeway signs, peoples homes. If you have a wall lining your property in the valley, you have to stock up on paint, because it’s gonna get tagged.
And what’s the first thing that crosses your mind when you see graffiti? Is it ‘What lovely art’?..Generally, it’s ‘This must be a dangerous area’, which is the effect most of these dirtbags are going for.
It hurts the whole community. It hurts by being an eyesore. It hurts by reducing the property values. It hurts by reducing people’s feeling of safety.(‘This must be a dangerous area’)
I think people caught tagging should be painted green.
I don’t think that content should be the deciding factor behind whether something is art. Much of the subject matter in the Old Testament is equally unsettling, but the language of the King James Version is decidedly poetic. Likewise some of Shakespeare’s works, like say Titus Andronicus, which contains onstage dismemberments.
Hell, Triumph of the Will is undeniably artistic within its medium, despite the fact that it is essentially Nazi propaganda. In fact, the power of its propaganda only strengthens the argument that it is effective art.
There is no need for me enjoy a particular work. I only need accept the possibility that someone might. At that point it is art. People do listen to rap music you know. Perhaps you are unaware that “Funky-doo-daddy bitch whore crack” wouldn’t be an unusual lyric for that genre.
Just my 2sense Get pigeonholed into some poppy sensation to cop me rotation at rock-n-roll stations
And I just do not got the patience… to deal with these cocky caucasians… - MM