An Homage To Mr. Svinlesha

[RedFury]

What? An homage in THE PIT?! You’re one clueless OP, my man, and none too bright either judging by your date of registration. I mean, come on! Even the newest of newbies, if they’d taken the slightest amount of time to observe how things are done on the SDMB certainly should know better. Simply a matter of common sense and Nettiquete. I guess, amongst many other things, I am lacking in both. But so fuckin’ what? I certainly don’t make it up for it in any other areas either – “genio y figura hasta la sepultura.” Might as well live by my OwnRules all around.

Are you throughly confused by now? Great, that’s right where I want you. Read ahead only if you care to know why. OTHO, if you enjoy being in suspense, stop right here – 'cause spoliers lay ahead.

Since the start of the Iraq Invasion Marketing Campaign, The Poster Known As Mr S, has been, without a doubt, one of brightest stars of this board in the Fight Against Ignorace[sup]®[/sup]. Anyone doubting that claim is more than welcomed to do a search under his name. For a more thorough and devoted debater I have yet to meet – his research qualities alone are unparalell . Along with those two qualities Mr S brings something else to the table, something I sorely lack and for which I have a healthy amount of respect – albeit this is one quality that is hardly his alone: almost neverending politeness. And I say “almost,” because his breeches of same only make him human.

So you may be wondering what’s to Pit in this seemingly extraordinary SDMB participant. In a word, nothing. But lest anyone thinks this is all about praise of one individual – and I cop to being somewhat misleading – what and whom I am pitting, are all those obviously mislead and right down disingenuous posters that continue to back the demonstrable sham that is is the Iraq invasion and continuing occupation.

A BIG ‘fuck you’ to each and everyone of you. For those of you that held on to the illusion of an ultimatedly ‘benevolent’ policy towards Iraq and the ensuing ‘spreading of democracy’ all over the MENA region, are either delusional or right down uninformed. In either case, you remain completely wrong – and if you’re posting here, you have almost no excuse to keep thinking that way. Unless your only interest is mindless and pointless stuff. As for the other, the ideologues – and you know who you are – and even heartier fuck you, for if there’s anything clearer that your plan won’t work, is the fact that more and more people are dying on a day to day basis. And for what? So that some of you validate your dreams of empire? That the US Armed Forces are the world’s best in conventional warfare? Whoopee fuckin’ do. That is news to whom, exactly?

Tell you what, if what you all want is Total Annihilation, we’re well on the way. Remember, ultimately, there’s no other way to ‘win.’ But does anyone? Moreover, can anyone if it comes down to nuclear warfare? M.A.D.

In closing and in a roundabout way coming back to the OP, I’d ask respondents to **read this thread first**…or at least skim through it. I’d love to see some of the pro-invasion posters pipe in yet again.

Perhaps it’ll put most of what I wrote into focus. Or not.

[Aeschines]

Hear hear. You gotta wonder about the marble content of anyone who thinks this debacle is anything but.

[Starving_Artist]

Politeness isn’t the only quality Mr. Svinlesha possesses that you lack, not by a long shot!

[blowero]

RedFury and Mr. Svinlesha, sittin’ in a tree…

[elucidator]

He’s evil. Through and through, malice incarnate, spite and vitriol takes human form. Twain said it, about how few things are as difficult to bear as the chronic annoyance of a good example. Twain met Mr. S, he would have listened in stunned silence for about ten minutes, and set to dark plotting, scheming for a gruesome and humiliating murder. You know it isn’t true, it can’t be true, no one could sit through ten pages of A Certain Poster’s bland and adamantine immunity to reason without erupting in fury. I, myself, the very model of humane and sensible discourse, have gone through ten monitors, each one destroyed in a futile attempt to reach in and strangle the smarmy little fucktoad, smoke erupts from ears curled with rage…

And then Mr. S strolls in with typically calm Scandanavian aplomb, begins patiently citing and explaining that, yes, this is indeed a shit sandwhich, here is the whole wheat bread, here’s the turd slice, no mayonnaise… For all the world, a man devoid of the bitterness and rancor that torment lesser souls, a calmative, a sound tonic, a verbal herbal tea…

Its a lie! A lie, I tell you! The local animal shelter has become suspicious of his constant need to replace the wretched creatures he has drop-kicked over the sauna when his abcess of pent-up hatred finally bursts into acts of unspeakable depravity and cruel malice.

I can’t prove any of this, or course. But its all true, I am sure of it!

[RedFury]

Aeschines, thank you. And yes, I do wonder about “the marble content” of those who continue to back this endeavour in current form.

SA, read the linked thread and get bacl to me. Beyond that, yes, no doubt there are plenty of differences between Mr. S and myself. If anything I pointed out his merits and acknowledged my own shortcomings.

Vive la Difference! If you dont mind my using treasonous French.

---

blowero, I’m confused, is yours some sort of homo-erotic quip? Because I happen to be quite secure in my hetero-sexuality and couldn’t care less what Mr S’s leanings might be. I thought it was needless to say that I can admire certain facets of a person regardless of sexuality.

Not that I’d be ashamed if there was more to it. But for one, there isn’t, and secondly, if I liked anyone in romatic fashion, at my age, I certainly have nor the the time nor the inclination to beat around the bush. No pun intended.

If I’ve misread your quip, apologies.

---

Meanwhile, back to the OP:

How the White House Embraced Disputed Arms Intelligence

In 2002, at a crucial juncture on the path to war, senior members of the Bush administration gave a series of speeches and interviews in which they asserted that Saddam Hussein was rebuilding his nuclear weapons program. Speaking to a group of Wyoming Republicans in September, Vice President Dick Cheney said the United States now had “irrefutable evidence” - thousands of tubes made of high-strength aluminum, tubes that the Bush administration said were destined for clandestine Iraqi uranium centrifuges, before some were seized at the behest of the United States.

Those tubes became a critical exhibit in the administration’s brief against Iraq. As the only physical evidence the United States could brandish of Mr. Hussein’s revived nuclear ambitions, they gave credibility to the apocalyptic imagery invoked by President Bush and his advisers. The tubes were “only really suited for nuclear weapons programs,” Condoleezza Rice, the president’s national security adviser, explained on CNN on Sept. 8, 2002. “We don’t want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud.”

But almost a year before, Ms. Rice’s staff had been told that the government’s foremost nuclear experts seriously doubted that the tubes were for nuclear weapons, according to four officials at the Central Intelligence Agency and two senior administration officials, all of whom spoke on condition of anonymity. The experts, at the Energy Department, believed the tubes were likely intended for small artillery rockets.

The White House, though, embraced the disputed theory that the tubes were for nuclear centrifuges, an idea first championed in April 2001 by a junior analyst at the C.I.A. Senior nuclear scientists considered that notion implausible, yet in the months after 9/11, as the administration built a case for confronting Iraq, the centrifuge theory gained currency as it rose to the top of the government.

Senior administration officials repeatedly failed to fully disclose the contrary views of America’s leading nuclear scientists, an examination by The New York Times has found. They sometimes overstated even the most dire intelligence assessments of the tubes, yet minimized or rejected the strong doubts of nuclear experts. They worried privately that the nuclear case was weak, but expressed sober certitude in public.

**One result was a largely one-sided presentation to the public that did not convey the depth of evidence and argument against the administration’s most tangible proof of a revived nuclear weapons program in Iraq. **(my bolding)

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

What’s the matter? You simply weren’t content without bringing this up again? Despite all of your pretense and lauding of Mr. S this thread is just a thinly veiled attempt to revisit the topic so that maybe you can get in a few more shots.

Very classy.

[fessie]

You have to give Bush credit for single-mindedness and consistency, the two qualities he displayed during the debates. He has consistently ignored the educated opinions of experts in a wide range of fields, on a variety of topics - from Iraq to the environment. He has single-mindedly pursued his agenda regardless of facts that contradict his assumptions or fail to support his arguments.

Somehow some people find this reassuring.

[SteveG1]

@elucidator

He’s evil. Through and through, malice incarnate, spite and vitriol takes human form…
Its a lie! A lie, I tell you! The local animal shelter has become suspicious of his constant need to replace the wretched creatures he has drop-kicked over the sauna when his abcess of pent-up hatred finally bursts into acts of unspeakable depravity and cruel malice…
I can’t prove any of this, or course. But its all true, I am sure of it!

I love the first phrase. As to proving he kicks small animals, I say can anyone disprove it? Then in the finest Pit tradition, it is true

I think he talks too much, even for me. All those pages of “stuff”, just to beat dead horses. Too much verbage over the same basic questions any reasonable person has.

Where is bin Laden? Where are/were the WMD? Two questions, nine words.
Two simple questions that distill the whole thread down to one line.

[Mr.Svinlesha]

Red Fury:

Thanks for your kind words. I hardly believe I deserve them, though!

• So you may be wondering what’s to Pit in this seemingly extraordinary SDMB participant. In a word, nothing. But lest anyone thinks this is all about praise of one individual – and I cop to being somewhat misleading – what and whom I am pitting, are all those obviously mislead and right down disingenuous posters that continue to back the demonstrable sham that is is the Iraq invasion and continuing occupation.*

I agree with you, in many cases it’s hard not to suspect that posters like Sam Stone, Scylla, and Shodan are being purposefully disingenuous. But as far as I can tell, the only way to address these people is by rationally debunking their arguments – or, if they’re really wing-nuts, by simply ignoring them.
elucidator:

Cats.

I find that when I’m really frustrated, there’s nothing like a good session of cat-juggling.
Airman:

Actually, I stumbled across that article a couple of days ago. I’ve been browsing old threads trying to find one in which I could post it. I though it would be particularly appropriate as a post in that old thread where Sam Stone and I argued over the aluminum tubes, all those years ago, but I can’t seem to locate it anymore. (Which is a real shame, by the way, since I spent hours reading and researching for that discussion.)

This thread strikes me as as good a place to post it as any. YMMV.
SteveG1:

• I think he talks too much, even for me. All those pages of “stuff”, just to beat dead horses. Too much verbage over the same basic questions any reasonable person has.*

Ah, the Mr. Svinlesha fan club. Total membership: 1

Anyway, I just couldn’t let their arguments go unanswered. Sorry if you found my responses long-winded.

[SteveG1]

It’s my fault. Either too much coffee, or not enough

[Sam_Stone]

Get a room!

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

The Doper named Mr. Svinlesha
Of falsehoods and fools takes the measure;
Debunks all that rot
With nary a jot
Of invective. Well, sometimes displeasure.

He researches, writes, and then posts
Detailed arguments laying such ghosts
As aluminum tubes
Used to lure in the rubes
To believe in the neocon boasts.

Fighting ignorance, day in, day out,
He parries the glurgings that spout
From the ill-informed fools,
Disingenuous tools
And spinmeisters who rant, rave and shout.

Here’s a toast to the man who has been
On the front lines of stopping the spin
That corrupts the debate
O’er our sorry world’s fate:
Lift a glass to our own Mr. Svin!

[Hentor_the_Barbarian]

I’ve long taken my hat off to Mr. S. As a colleague of sorts, I am sure that he brings his demeanor and comportment to the improvement of anyone he comes to work with. As a presence on this board, well, I am always excited to see his name come up because I know that his contribution will advance the debate in a polite way.

He is a better man than I am, because, even if we are in possession of the same information and insight into a matter, he will present it in a highly useful way, whereas I will start calling those on the other side of the argument for the slimy, motherfucking, dirty, dishonorable, disingenous talking-points-spewing, pussies that they are.

Having said that, it isn’t always clear that Mr. S’ efforts bear any greater fruit than my own. Certainly, there are plenty here who seem immune to even the most patiently, calmly and convincingly presented factual argument.

So fuck 'em, New Democrat style!

Mr. S, by the way, should you have any doubt about my professional comportment, please rest assured that, whereas you must consistently be a paragon of patience and tolerance in the session and out, I am at least very good in the room. Now, if Karl Rove appeared at my door, wanting to work out his issues…

[RedFury]

@Airman

What’s the matter? You simply weren’t content without bringing this up again?

Give the man a price! How very perceptive of him.

OTOH, it says as much in the fuckin’ OP. And yes, as long as there are imbecils out there defending the Iraq invasion, I’ll certainly keep “bringing it up.”

You’re welcomed to stay the fuck out and/or contribute something worthwhile.

@Sam Stone

Get a room!

Naw, but thanx all the same. I’d much rather watch Mr S tear you a new asshole. Help you drain all that feces you’re so full of.

---

Good stuff, ETF.

[RedFury]

@Hentor the Barbarian

He is a better man than I am, because, even if we are in possession of the same information and insight into a matter, he will present it in a highly useful way, whereas I will start calling those on the other side of the argument for the slimy, motherfucking, dirty, dishonorable, disingenous talking-points-spewing, pussies that they are.

Having said that, it isn’t always clear that Mr. S’ efforts bear any greater fruit than my own. Certainly, there are plenty here who seem immune to even the most patiently, calmly and convincingly presented factual argument.

Excellent summary of what I’ve been trying to get across. Thank you.

I’ll just add that at this point, we know that we’re dealing with some “slimy, motherfucking, dirty, dishonorable, disingenous talking-points-spewing, pussies.” And they know who they are as well.

Fuck them sideways with a rusty spoon.

[presidebt]

@Mr. Svinlesha

Red Fury:
or, if they’re really wing-nuts, by simply ignoring them.

But once you’ve done the debunking for a while and they still continue in their (intentionally or not) dishonest vein, isn’t it best just to ignore them?* A…uh…fisherman who can’t catch fish with the shiny new fly will inevitably move to another spot, no?*

*These are actually questions for the larger group, I’m just using the quote as a lead-in.

I’ve read several of these types of threads, or threads that call out one lie or another, or a bunch as Mr. Svin did in the linked thread (which I recall reading at the time and thinking was a gloriously polite, yet effective OP), and all I ever see from certain called-out right-leaning posters is: It wasn’t just us! It was y’all too! Yada, yada, yada. As if the fact that someone else may have done something similar is reason enough not to apologize post haste. That’s the same kind of logic my ten year old daughter uses. It’s embarrassingly pathetic coming from adults. Apologize, for Og’s sake, then start a thread about what libs did.

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

@RedFury

Give the man a price! How very perceptive of him.

OTOH, it says as much in the fuckin’ OP. And yes, as long as there are imbecils out there defending the Iraq invasion, I’ll certainly keep “bringing it up.”

You’re welcomed to stay the fuck out and/or contribute something worthwhile.

What’s left to talk about? The WMDs never materialized. You had your victory already. The only thing left to do is gloat, and that’s just not cool.

What’s more, you’re quite obviously trying to pick a fight, and that’s why Sam Stone isn’t taking the bait. What’s the point? While I still hold out some infinitesimally small amount of hope that the WMDs were buried or ended up in Syria or something, the likelihood of that approaches nil. So woohoo, you’re right, you win, good for you. Quit being a prick about it and quit trying to draw people into pointless fights over it. Geez. You’re like Eric Cartman in Soth Park. “Do you have a regional championship certificate, Kyle?”. No. You win. We get it.

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

Oh, and lest you think that I’m bashing Mr S., I have to say that he’s one of the better posters around. As are you, when you’re not being an ass.

[GIGObuster]

Many thanks indeed to Mr. Svinlesha!

And Airman Doors, USAF: among the conservative posters here, I respect you the most!