An idea for DMs and world-builders (D&D)

Cafe Society
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Every now and then I get in the mood to work on a D&D campaign setting, but I never get around to finishing one. Well, I’m in that sort of mood right now, and I had an interesting idea. What about an “open-source” setting built on a site based on wiki software?

Suppose, for instance, that you start with a world map and with it create an image map in which clicking on a particular area brings up an entry for that area plus a region map that in turn contains links to individual settlements and other locales. The geography itself would have to be more or less set in stone, but the content of the entries is essentially up to the participants.

A somewhat more flexible aspect of the setting would be creation of NPCs. From an organizational standpoint, the challenge here is ensuring that it’s clear who’s connected to whom. Some sort of graphical representation of the relationships between characters would be cool, but doesn’t seem feasible.

There would also have to be entries on things like history, languages, races, organizations, and so on. Of course, the biggest problems would be ensuring quality of content and establishing some kind of uniformity of vision to keep stories consistent and prevent excessive variations in power levels, access to magic, technological development, etc. Still, I think it’d be a fun experiment. The question is, would it even be possible to set up?

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Actually there was someone here recently who posted a link to a D&D wiki they had set up.

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I think I remember seeing that, but wasn’t that one more focused on compiling rules and open source d20 material than on creating a unique setting?

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Yep. though I vaguely seem to recall a collaborative campaign setting online from some years back…

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Was it a complete trainwreck? I really like the idea of an open collaborative setting, but I have a feeling that the only way to get good results would be to have it be, for lack of a better term, semi-open. Maybe an invitation-only deal. Of course, I can’t imagine most people taking the time to prove that they’re “right” for the project, but given the wide range of what people consider overpowered, underpowered, balanced, or, for that matter, fun, I can’t see any other way for such an undertaking to succeed.

It still sounds like a fun idea, though; if I had the webspace (and wiki software) I’d give it a shot.

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One World by Night has been doing it for years.

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If you move ahead with this, I’d like to contribute.

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I’d like to help out too.

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It’d have to be pretty closely moderated to keep it from becoming self-contradictory, seriously redundant, or of wildly inconsistant power-levels.

That said, I wouldn’t mind participating.

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That’s what I’m thinking. One thing that would help, I think, is to start with certain ground rules, so that everyone’s clear on what does and doesn’t fit. Things like acceptable power levels for NPCs, rarity of magic items and spellcasters, allowed source material, etc should probably be established early on.

I wouldn’t mind sepnding a few bucks on webspace if you all think this has a chance of working and are willing to contribute material. How much space and bandwidth would this sort of thing require? Also, how does one go about getting a copy of the wiki software and how easy is it to use? If it turns out that it’s not ridiculously expensive, I’ll ask around on some of the larger D&D message boards (and maybe start a new thread here) and see how much interest there is for such a project.

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Wiki software is free, and runs on Linux, I have a server running for personal use. It’s not that big either see Mediawiki .

A couple recommendations, from an effort I participated in many moons ago (like 1992 maybe, on the AD&D newsgroup)

First thing to hash out, before anything else, is a geography/mythology. It’s kinda jarring to have all these different mythos crammed next to each other, and generally, the mythos is determined by the geography, but its easier to do it the other way.

IOW, Norse mythology is harsh, cold, bleak, and obviously built for a region that is somewhat arctic. Egyptian mythology is obviously a product of a desert area, with a spring renewal (nile flood) representing rebirth. Neither would work in the other environment You’ll need to define geography or mythos, then let that be your guide to the rest.

That said, it would be fun to take a given geography, determine the hardships and boons the inhabitants would face, then determine what they would deem worthy of worship or fear.

So do you want to use existing mythos’ or do you want to develop new ones. Making a society without such a plan will be generic at best or inconsistant and fake feeling or contradictory at worst. The mythos in a society is the root of most everything they do, and defines social norms, conventions, laws, etc.

One of the best ideas I remember from that effort was the “standard NPC”
Someone created (this was 2nd Ed) four NPC’s of each of the base classes, and ran them ahead to each of levels 5, 10 an 15(and kept first level). These were considered “standard” so you had random figher X from 5th level, paired with random mage X from 5th level, etc.

If you made a module targeted at level X, you could get pretty close by testing with the randoms(usually several times). They did it on paper, nowdays you could probably keep a database of random groups at every level, and test against them.

And you also would want a strong leader who won’t be browbeat, or a strong governing council. We all know the tenacity of the rules lawyers to try to browbeat you into submission, you want someone who can tell them “because thats how I said it is” and not back down(this is what killed the effort I helped with, they had great ideas, but a weak leader with no backing and a bunch of whiney crybabies harping at him, he finally just gave up in frustration) .

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Um, I guess I should have started with: I am interested in helping out if you’ll have me, and here are my experiences up until now with similar projects, and my ideas for doing it right.

Also, I do have experience running a Wiki, so if you need help on that front let me know.

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Etherman, thank you for that post. I’ve honestly never given much consideration to geography’s effect on religion, but it’s definitely a good point. I’ve never really had any kind of religious or spiritual faith, so it’s hard for me to see things from the point of view of the faithful (of course, faith seems kinda moot when priests can cast spells). I think the Dark Sun setting is pretty good proof that a setting doesn’t need religion or deities per se, but godless settings are unpopular enough that it’d probably be better to establish some guidelines for how deities work and then delegate pantheon creation to others.

Good point about needing strong leadership, too. The trick, in my opinion, is in having some kind of leadership without becoming possessive about the work (deleting/rejecting acceptable material due to personal dislike, etc.).

Hm, Linux-only is a bit of a problem, though. I don’t currently have an extra PC I can use as a Linux box, though that could change if a friend or relative decides to get a new system, or if my girlfriend goes through with installing Linux on her old laptop.

Also, since I forgot to say it earlier, welcome to the boards, MackoUr!

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I’m sufficiently intrigued to contribute. World-building is my favorite GM activity, I think.

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I’m more than willing to help out, on the craetive side. Had I a spare PC I would also be willing to set up the Linux server to run it, but as it is I’m having trouble enough getting my one PC to work right.

I actually about a month ago started to deign a campaign world, and pretty much only got as far as the Pantheon, and a little bit of the world history. I found out that I am really bad at world history. I’d be more thanwilling to submit part of the pantheon, though, It’s all orignal, but certainly similar to ones of other worlds, in that there is your typical god of war, god of death, god of nature, etc…

Hopefully we can get this thing working, cause it sounds cool.

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An additional point here is that it’s nice for the combination of geography and climate to make sense. Location and terrain shape the climate, and the climate shapes the culture. It’s easier to maintain suspension of disbelief if they all work together–and if they don’t, hook a story on it to explain the situation.

If this gets off the ground, I’d be interested in contributing. I’ve done considerable world-building over the years, both for D&D and a fantasy LARP. I tend to focus on lore development–if you want an obscure prophecy, or a family curse, or the tenets of a peculiar order of monks, I’m your guy. I also find myself doing characterization for minor NPCs (likely the result of my LARP experience, in which I have often been the nameless bandit on the left).

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I’ve got a question about the Wiki software: what exactly is the function of the Linux system? That is, what is it about, er, wikiness, that doesn’t wind up on the site itself? Admin functions or somesuch? Once a wiki site is set up, is it possible to maintain it without a Linux system, such as with a web interface? Better yet, are there any plans for a Windows port? Games aside, Linux gets all the cool toys…

You know, the SDMB has so many experts in so many fields that creating a realistic world with plausible history and civilizations is well within the realm of possibility. I think that if this were to go ahead, the first step in design should probably be to sort out what needs to be set in stone from the beginning (like geography and cosmology) and then decide upon how to proceed with each of those things, including making decisions about who should work on what areas. Once a consensus (or a majority opinion, at least) is reached about how to proceed in a given area, content creation can begin, hopefully with all participants understanding the general direction things are headed in.

To me, the big questions are:[ul]
[li]What source material is allowed?[/li][li]What is the overall power level of the setting?[/li][li]What is the setting’s geography like?[/li][li]What is the cosmology of the setting (other planes, etc.)?[/li][li]Are there deities/powers in this setting? Who are they?[/li][li]How commonplace are spellcasters and magic items?[/li][li]Are there any particularly significant events in the settings history? How do they affect the present?[/li][/ul]
Once those questions are answered, it’s easier to get creation of civilizations, pantheons, important characters, etc. on the right track. It seems like much less of a hassle to do things from a “top-down” approach than to have everyone try to work from the ground up and hope for common threads to form.

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Update: Apparently, there are several sites that host wikis for free, so it looks like we may be able to move forward with this thing after all. I’ve just set up an account at seedwiki.com. The wiki’s name is worldbuilder. Over the next few days I’ll see if I can get people on D&D boards interested in contributing. There are currently only two entries up, but hopefully that’ll change soon.