Miller, here’s a tough one for you. Shouldn’t highly paid and accomplished professionals serve as role-models? Such people are achievers and excel at what they do. The last time I checked, these are the sort of aspirations children should have.
Mind you, I am sick of multi-millionaire sports stars showing intelligence levels on par with a stalk of celery. I think a society that exalts these one-trick-wonders as such worthy beings may say more about the issue than the idiocy these same morons exhibit.
When you are rolling in dough and don’t bother to wise yourself up by gathering some intelligence along with all those Ferraris, get ready for some thumps and bumps.
Not necessarily. Having a lot of money doesn’t make one admirable. Being able to hit a small sphere with a stick or put a ball in a basket is a neat trick, but it doesn’t make you a better person. Being an achiever and exceling at your job are not virtues in and of themselves: more important is the task towards which the qualities are bent. Al Capone was an achiever who excelled at what he did. Didn’t make him a good role-model. I think it’s more important that children should be taught to be good people, not succesful people. Which is not to say that athletes can’t be genuinely good people and positive role models: but that has to come from something other than their sports abilities, because being good at sports doesn’t prove much of anything about what sort of a person the athlete is.
Can’t argue with anything else in your post, though.
If you’re not prepared to be a role model, why take on the responsibility of a wife and child while you’re earning all those millions?
I just have to wonder why men waltz into to marriage and fatherhood if they are of the type that will screw around (do they not know they will? Being of the female persuasion, I don’t comprehend it). As a celebrity, they must understand women will be throwing themselves at them at every turn.
We have some nasty stories about Dallas Cowboys in my town - idiots, the lot of them.
They’re not good role-models, for the most part, but the fact is that they are role-models. I’d rather kids looked up to people like Richard Feynman or John Lennon, but it’s not going to happen. Michael Jordan can sell more shoes. (Nothing against MJ, actually, just picking a name.)
Which is why I wish the NBA (etc.) and the team management would actually do something to sanction their players from acting like scum, instead of making excuses for them and looking the other way.
If Kobe is found guilty, I don’t think he should be treated different from anyone else as far as the law is concerned. But the Lakers should can his ass. They won’t though, assuming he doesn’t get serious jail time, because he’s too good a player, and winning (and the money) is more important than character to them.
As for me, I’ll never watch another Blazers game until Patterson, Wallace, and Stoudamire are discharged with prejudice. (I wouldn’t mind if they got rid of that prima-donna asshole Pippen either, but since he’s not actually a criminal, AFAIK, I’ll let him slide.)
Kobe Bryant’s wife recently gave birth to a child. It’s not unusual for young fathers to stray in the first year or two of their first child’s life. They may not go so far as full out sex with another woman, but occasionally it happens.
So on that night, Kobe Bryant was, perhaps – like myriad men before him – feeling overwhelmed by the new responsibilties involved with being both a husband and a parent. Perhaps he was fed up with a young wife who he felt was concentrating her attentions on the new child to the detriment of their relationship. With a young baby, she may not be highly motivated (or have found the energy) to resume their sex life. Perhaps Kobe was feeling neglected or rejected, cast aside entirely in favor of the new baby, maybe just a little jealous, even. And then, when opportunity presented itself for him to enjoy the attentions of another woman, even when that led to sex, he took that opportunity. All of this happens. It’s not appropriate, but it’s not the most heinous thing in the world, either.
Or, perhaps, Kobe Bryant is – like myriad professional athletes before him – only human and, when faced with the temptation of a young woman who was more than willing to bed him, he gave in. Perhaps this is part of a pattern for him; perhaps this was a first-time, one-time slip. Perhaps this slip occured despite his deep love and affection for his family, not because he really wanted it to but because he just couldn’t marshal the reserves to say no. Again, this happens. It’s not appropriate, but it’s also not the most heinous thing in the world, either.
People commit adultery every day. It’s a truth which has existed since the dawn of the ages, or at least since there was such a thing as marriage. Sometimes they choose to willfully hurt their spouse by cheating, sometimes they just let their lust override their common sense.
The fact of the matter is that we don’t know the mindset of Kobe Bryant in that room, nor the mindset of the young woman involved. We are not privy to the inner workings and conditions of the Bryant marriage and household. We do not know what motivations and emotions were at play in this incident.
But amazingly, many seem completely comfortable in making presumptions and excoriating Kobe without the tiniest scintilla of information about the true nature of the incident which has led to this case.
As for Kobe’s press conference, he was damned if he did, damned if he didn’t, and we all know it. He’s spoken up and now he’s being painted as arrogant and a liar; if he’d remained silent, people would be asking why and suggesting that he hasn’t said anything because he has something to hide.
Kobe’s wife is, by all appearances, sticking by him. Perhaps she’s forgiven him his transgression. (And if she has, that’s all that matters. The railings of a bunch of opinionated members of the public are meaningless.) Perhaps she’s aware that there were mitigating circumstances that fueled what he did. Perhaps, having an intimate knowledge of his character and demeanor that none of us could possibly be availed of, she’s standing with him because she feels assured of his innocence. In any case, it speaks volumes. She certainly could’ve distanced herself from him, packed up their child and fled to her parents, issuing a public statement of disavowal on her way.
Nike has announced that they will await the results of the criminal proceedings before making a decision about his endorsement contract. After all, Kobe is innocent of all criminal charges until proven guilty in a court of law.
This is something that should’ve been a private matter, at best, and at the very worst, it would’ve been just one of the thousands of rape cases tried in the country every year. Because of Kobe’s profession, it’s out there for every schmo to try to pick apart without even a smattering of the facts needed to make the kinds of proclamations that are being tossed around here.
But you know, don’t let the fact that you’re all talking out of your asses dissuade you from continuing to roast this man over the flames of public image annihilation for doing something that every single one of us could do.
Kobe Bryant is a GREAT role model for what a person should be whilst playing basketball.
The same cannot be said of his personal life.
If your definition of “role model” involves such picking-and-choosing, then yes, Kobe was unarguably a great role model. However, if you believe that it requires superb behavior in ALL walks of life… well, I can’t even think off-hand of a half-dozen celebrities that fit that bill.
Pot … Kettle … Black
Who knows and who gives a fuck about Bryant’s mindset? Marriage vows are among the deepest and most significant commitments people ever make in their entire lives. Bryant damn well knew it when he made them, otherwise he would not be so contrite right now.
Real men don’t stray, period. People who make loud and public declarations of personal purity know better, no excuses. Any married man knows damn well when he is breaking his wedding vows. He knows it is wrong at the time and he knows it before and after the fact as well. Whatever rationalizations he might make now, then or later are only so much horseshit.
Cheating on a spouse who has just borne your child only goes one step further into the realm of total sleaze. Whether or not he raped this woman is immaterial to the fact that he defiled the sanctity of his own home and marriage.
If I ever cheat upon the woman I marry, I can only hope that all of my friends are decent enough to drop me like a live grenade and console my (it is hoped) ex-wife in an honorable fashion. I would not expect a woman to remain married to me for another 24 hours after finding out I cheated upon her. People who are unable to accept the solemnity of their own marriage make a mockery of their own life and all they stand for. Bryant is morally bankrupt.
As for whether it was rape? What I have heard is that there wouldn’t have been any charges if it weren’t for so many people calling the police about all the screaming. Does anyone have a cite for this?
Whoever wants to whinge about judging someone before the fact needs to remind themselves that only specific trial jurors are not permitted to do so. Ordinary citizens are perfectly free to think whatever they want about somebody. A newly married man and recent father who knowingly commits and publicly admits to adultery is a slimeball and not much else.
Who the blue bloody fuck is Kobe Bryant and why the hell has his confession of adultery been your top story for the past two days in a region where basketball is just slightly less popular than competitive smelt fishing (seniors division)?
Am I the only one who thinks having pro athletes sign a “Good Role-Model Clause” as part of their standard multi-bazillion-dollar contracts is a good idea? Something like “I, the undersigned, realize that I will be a high-profile role-model for millions of impressionable youngsters. I will therefore undertake the responsibility to always behave properly in public to teach good ethical values to our youth. Specifically, I will do the following…” And if they don’t want to sign it, fine – but make that news public, and cut their salary by 15% as a result.
Kobe’s deal with the Lakers is to play basketball. Atheletes are paid to perform. Nothing else. I see no reason to hold them to a higher standard simply because they are well paid and perform their jobs in public.
I loved the Charles Barkley commercial where he stated “I am not a role model. I am not paid to be role model. I am paid to wreak havoc on the basketball court”.
Now, if you word it as a penalty for anything that might reflect badly upon the organization that they play for…but even then, I’m iffy on it. Really, should Kobe be held to higher moral standard than Jerry Buss simply because the public wants to watch Kobe and not Jerry?
Right, but his contrition over straying from his marriage is NOT the public’s business, nor are the conditions of his marriage before or after the fact. None of this should be open for discussion, dissection or presumption. It’s not our concern. That’s my point – we don’t have any business talking about this man’s marriage. He’s a public figure. These charges are public. His marriage, however, is private.
A lot of people do things that they know are wrong at the time, but they do them anyway. Does that mean that they aren’t allowed to be apologetic and repetant about it later? Are we just going to throw the baby out with the bathwater and say “No, sorry, you fucked up, you’re toast, go away now, you’re irrelevant forever.”? Especially when what happened has (I’m going to harp on this point repeatedly because it’s so important to me) the infraction committed was directly related to only one (or two, if you count the baby) other person, not the public at large?
Did I say give him a pass? No. I just said that whatever Kobe does to defile the sanctity of his marriage is the business of the parties who are a part of that marriage, not Zenster or tlw or rjung or anybody on the SDMB (Mr. and Mrs. Bryant aren’t members, to my knowledge) or talking heads on the ESPNs or CNN or anywhere else.
Further, we know that conservative estimates say that fully 25% of men will stray from their marriage vows in one way or another. We also know that marriages are at their most vulnerable whenever major life-changing events occur, like the birth of a child or a major move of household, change of career and so on. This is not a justification, it is simply an examination of the general facts that we know, as opposed to presumptions like:
(We know what’s “gone” to Kobe Bryant’s head?)
(We know that Kobe needed to improve himself and failed?)
(Being married makes you a role model? Or is earning a high salary? I’m confused.)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zenster * If I ever cheat upon the woman I marry, I can only hope that all of my friends are decent enough to drop me like a live grenade and console my (it is hoped) ex-wife in an honorable fashion. I would not expect a woman to remain married to me for another 24 hours after finding out I cheated upon her. People who are unable to accept the solemnity of their own marriage make a mockery of their own life and all they stand for. Bryant is morally bankrupt./
[quote]
Because the concept of forgiveness is meaningless to you? Because it’s possible for people to show compassion and mercy even to those who have murdered their loved ones, but a philandering husband should be cut off from humanity forever even for a single lapse of judgment?
Because in the grand scheme of all of the things one can do to dishonor their marriage, adultery is the most outrageous and offensive?
No one died. As far as the adultery goes, no one within the marriage was physically hurt. Marriages survive even multiple acts of adultery (serial adultery, even) intact and often, stronger than they were before the fact. There are plenty of people who decide that they can forgive, learn lessons and move on.
And that’s their right, and their decision. Their private decision, and one which no one outside of the marriage has the right nor room to second guess or comment upon.
I’m sure I’m not alone in hoping against hope that the presence of semen and complaints about loud sex in a hotel aren’t the basis for a rape charge now.
An aside – if I had the time and thought that the most important threads on the topic were still available (damn you, Winter of Missed Content) I’d have to engage searches for the opinions of some of the vocal Kobe-excoriators about a certain other public figure that we’ve all heard of. You know who I mean, the one who denied, with a pointed finger for emphasis, that he ever had sexual relations with that woman – despite the existence of DNA evidence to the contrary.
I’d be especially interested in what was said once it was learned that the untrue denial was repeated under oath in a legal proceeding. I’m curious if those who think that adultery is grounds for firing from a job playing a game also thought it was grounds for that certain other public figure to lose his much more important and powerful job, one that was actually predicated on his judgment as opposed to his physical abilities.
tlw - just to clarify: if you’re earning a zillion dollars as a high-profile sports figure, understand that you will be a role model. And act as such.
This story disgusts me. Expecting backlash on this comment, but for ONCE I would like to hear that the wife walked out on their famous athlete husband, as opposed to holding his freaking hand in a press conference. I’m completely (own experience) into forgiving, but I dunno.
I don’t think anyone has a right to super-impose THEIR ideas of a good marriage onto someone else’s marriage. Unless you know all the intimate details of the Bryant marriage, how can you be sure that they don’t have an open marriage? Maybe it’s OK with Mrs. Bryant that Kobe screws around (just becuase Kobe publically and profusely apologized does not mean that the Bryants didn’t have an “understanding”). What business is it of yours? How can you call him a sleaze? What details do you know about this rendez-vous that we don’t that makes you feel justified in judging Kobe?
He apologized publically to his wife for his digression, so I will assume (just an assumption, I give you that) that they don’t have an open marriage. Their first child was born in January of this year.
None of my business whatsoever, you got that part right. That fact doesn’t dilute my disdain, so sorry.
How can you dock a person’s pay by 15% just because they don’t want to be a “role model”. These men are adults. If they want to party like rockstars, have sex with multiple women, and get arrested for bar fights than who the hell are you to judge them. Just because little johny likes Superstar SoandSo doesn’t mean that he will grow up thinking that it’s right. Role models should be the parents. I know that some athletes are good role models, but when you have millions of dollars, in the peak of your life/career, most of them want to endulge in their own pleasures cause they have “earned” it. It was them who got themselves this far and did all the hours of training to become this good.
So I guess the good role model clause is a no in my book.
I’m not judging, I’m just disgusted and disappointed, as are many of his fans.
Like it or not, our kiddos look up to sports heroes. Sorry, but I don’t buy into the Charles Barkley “I’m not a role model” shit. If you’re paid that much, the least you can do is be discreet.
Many business and product endorsement contracts for major sports stars and other celebrities have “moral turpitude” clauses. They may be penalized or disqualified for violations of it. A good example of this is the no-pornographic-photos clause for Miss America contestants. Bryant stands to lose millions (IIRC) for his Nike contract alone. That ain’t small potatoes.
A man’s only as good as his word. He gave his word of honor to his wife about his own fidelity and has admitted that he broke that pledge. From someone who boasted of his moral purity, that is pretty repellent. It’s hard to feel any sympathy.