Anarchy: What's the deal?

Wow, where to begin . . .

There are a lot of non-tangible things that can be exchanged: credit notes, debt securities, liquidated contracts, bank notes, dollars, IOUs, etc. Currencies are only one of a very long list of non-tangibles that can be exchanged. Currencies of large stable nations are handy because their notes are more reliable than notes issued by some guy named Norton. If some guy named Norton puts out notes that are more reliable than a nation, then people will use his notes rather than that nation’s note as a method of exchange, or they may chose both, the way some people once did in San Francisco, or the way some Canadians now do with Canadian Tire coupons. If you prohibit property, then you shut down exchange, for no one will be interested in exchanging notes etc. that are not reliable.

If you have a lot of blueberry muffins, it is not hard to find someone who wants to exchange something for some of those muffins. If you want a 2010 F150, it is not hard to find someone who wants to receive something in exchange for that truck. It is not so easy to find two people in a community, where one person wants to specifically exchange a lot of blueberry muffins for an F150, and the other person specifically wants to exchange an F150 for a lot of blueberry muffins. To solve this problem, we have that long list of intangibles that can be exchanged.

As long as there is enough stability in the system, a person with a lot of muffins can exchange some muffins for a note from one person, some muffins for a note from another person, some muffins for a note from yet another person, until all the muffins have been traded for notes. The muffin man then takes the notes to the person with the F150, and as long as the person with the F150 trusts that all the notes are reliable, an exchange will be made. If the person with the F150 does not have confidence that the notes will be honoured by the various people who made the notes, then an exchange will not happen.

To solve this problem of reliability, we have governments and major financial institutions who’s notes are reliable for the most part, and in any event are a lot more reliable than most individual’s notes. Quite simply, the odds of an American dollar not being honoured are a lot less than an individual’s cheque not being honoured. Since most people trust the notes issued by stable governments, it is a lot simpler for the muffin man to insist on receiving government notes from the people who receive his muffins that to accept individuals notes, for he knows that there is a much greater chance that the person with the F150 will exchange it for government backed notes than for notes from people whom the person with the F150 does not know and has no reason to trust.

There is no law that requires people to only exchange government notes. People exchange government notes because government notes are the most trustworthy intangibles that can be exchanged. People exchange intangibles because that makes it possible to make exchanges without hauling goods over distances, and without having to go through multiple exchanges to eventually obtain the item that was eventually sought. In short, people trust the major international currencies far more than they trust AHunter3 IOUs for a method of exchange.

Huh???

:confused:

Did you somehow think… manage to interpret my posts… as an endorsement of using my IOUs as a method of exchange?

HOW did that happen?

Let’s start over. Latro said it’s not the boss’s power that makes folks produce DVD players, it’s the lure of money. I assumed the implicit part of that was that insofar as the prior post was about communication being the process that results in DVD players, he was saying that removing power-over from the picture is ignoring the role of money.

I was explaining that when you remove power-over from the picture, you have already removed money from the picture as well.

The “AHunter3 IOUs” remark was a throwaway remark, and as msmith points out shortly after that, even the IOUs would not be what they are in our world, given the lack of court enforcement. Just ignore the IOUs remark. Totally irrelevant aside.

The economic system of an anarchy is not based on any kind of keeping track of who owes who what. Not barter, not IOUs, not money, not securities, not bonds, not gold bouillon, nothing.

But we have one not-so-magical replicator already, and people use it to take or give something everyday, with no thought of getting anything in return or needing to give anything to the other person/people. Or haven’t you heard about mp3/file sharing?

You can’t eat mp3 audio files.

Fine by me as long as I get to ski while you support me without keeping track.

So to summarize: http://imgur.com/N2XcD.png

No, you can’t eat an mp3 file. Nor can you eat a car. Or a loom. Or a shirt. Or another person’s time.

Your failure to understand the point of my post, coupled with your apparent inability to understand the concept of voluntary cooperation, is really only underscoring the points that some of us are making regarding rational anarchist thoughts and ideals.

I’m sorry for you, but thankful for your illustrations nonetheless.

I quite understand the concept, and I reject it, for on a macro scale, it is unworkable.

If you’re skiing, that implies we’re on a ski slope. Trust me, you don’t even want to so much as lean on me, let alone have me support you on your way down. Track or no track.

Try a grand link. A delightfuly socialist approach to skiing.

It is unworkable right now, you mean. And that’s what I was saying: no one has claimed that it is workable right now. But you still keep blathering as tho some one had made that claim.

It is now and always will be unworkable.

I disagree with you.

That’s the biggest problem with anarchy as I’ve seen it explained on these boards. I can’t plan a philosophy around what might be I have to plan it around the conditions that exist. When scarcity becomes a non-issue then maybe we can talk about anarchy as a viable philosophy. Otherwise it will remain within the realm of science fiction and fantasy.

So again we’re back to the notion that if we can’t arrive at 100% anarchy overnight then gee there’s no purpose in thinking about it?

So because people murder each other, Christians should forsake the Ten Commandments?

Because people still lust and desire, Buddhists should just give up?

Because we have war, we can’t plan (or hope) for peace?

Because there is injustice, we can’t strive for equity?

If there is no more murder, lust, desire, war, injustice etc., then there is no need for the Ten Commandments, Buddhists, etc. In other words, in a fantasy world in which there is no scarcity, there will be no need to prohibit property or exchange, and therefore no need for anarchism.

Just as you have not shown why anarchy is necessary in such a perfect world, you have not shown how anarchy gets us to such a perfect world.

Since anarchy is irrelevant as either a catalyst or an end result in the realm of political economy, the question arises ‘what is anarchism?’

Seems to me that anarchy is more about faith and the desiring of a certain state of being, and is founded on the premise that ‘if everyone would just get along and believe what I believe,’ then everything would be perfect. It belongs in the world of religious studies, not political economy.

Double post . . .

A nice start would be to get this board working properly.

No one has made the claim that “anarchy is necessary” nor that anarchy will beget “a perfect world”. You really just aren’t understanding things, and your posts show that you have already made up your mind, and aren’t even really listening. All you seem to be doing is saying “no!” without really reading or comprehending.

Your question has been answered multiple times, and you simply refuse to accept the answers. Why come back and ask it yet again, when you have already rejected the explanations offered?

This post again shows that you just aren’t understanding what people are posting here. You don’t even seem to be making the effort, and that’s too bad. Maybe AH3 has more patience than I do, but I can’t see the point in trying with you any longer. Fighting ignorance, like anarchism, requires voluntary cooperation from all parties involved, and I’m just not seeing any from you.

That’s typical for religious witnessing. If a person does not accept the witnesser’s faith, then the witnesser places blame on the person for not being open to accepting the faith.