People also claim to have seen Vishnu and been abducted by aliens. Hallucinations are not evidence.
For ESP, if it cannot be replicated, how do you distinguish it from chance? I’ve read some of Rhine’s books - even he thought it could be replicated, if the right person were found.
For ghosts, if there is something there, and that something can somehow interact with the real world, why shouldn’t it happen more than once?
I’m not sure if there are real scientists studying ghosts, but there have been real scientists studying ESP. While there have been issues with the way the experiments were conducted, the real issue is that there seems to be nothing there to find.
Not at all. I make no claim that these things would obey natural laws - only that if they are real they would be distinguishable from chance or error. If someone proved ESP happens, the next step would be to figure out how it happens.
I have no idea of what the source for these events would be if they were ever detected. That’s putting the cart before the horse. Consider the Flood. A truly religious person would say the Flood was a miracle, and needed no further explanation. A “scientific creationist” who wants to teach the story in the schools comes up with all sorts of lame pseudo-scientific explanations for the flood and its effects. The rationalist, noting that there is no evidence the flood ever happened and plenty it didn’t, sees no need to come up with any explanation at all. First, demonstrate something happened, then we can worry about its cause.
I don’t know which Bible you are reading, but mine has nothing about this. Since the Nephilum are mentioned as one of the evils that caused the flood, why would God let them back? I mean, if you are tenting your house to get rid of termites, you don’t save out the queen to reintroduce.
That’s right up their with the Shaver mystery in explanatory power, or the many secret powers I’m reading in the reissue of Weird Tales that came out 20 years ago. (Yes, I have kind of a backlog. ) There is no great mystery to be explained about our society, which consists of a bunch of people with various moral and ethical makeups and various understandings of the world acting. I don’t need any supernatural entities to explain my life, and I doubt you do either if you look at yourself honestly.
You were not asking for evidence, but eyewitness accounts.
An eyewitness account has to be demonstrable as an event external to the witness.
Please give me the verse in your bible that contains the word for Nephlium
WTF, where did you EVER get that the Nephlium are evil, what book, chapter and verse?
The reason for the flood is made clear in Gen 6:
Clearly mankind, not Nephlium kind was declared the reason, again if you have some other scriptures supporting the Nephlium as evil please give the book, chapter and verse. Nephlium are very much Loved children of the sons of God.
I have never heard a natural model of societal structure that comes close to the wisdom of the ancients, so at least for me the current model created many millennium ago stands.
Personal experience and discovery of your own spiritual gifts. Again I contend supernatural gifts are not only real but given by higher beings who control our natural laws that constrain us, but not them.
So do, I believe many do. Haunting I believe are allowed to happen because the person has something to learn from them, part of that is dealing with the unexplainable, a needed skill. What good would it serve then to have it explainable?
Because they are trusting their ability to discover these things, instead of trusting in the higher beings who control everything, and have given us everything including science.
Why do you make such a assumption about supernatural events? Perhaps chance itself is supernaturally determined (which scriptures state outright btw)
Another way of looking at it is how do such a text fit the observed evidence. The evidence is that there are many such stories of smaller floods where a remnant is saved, evidence of such smaller floods happening, could all of the small floods equal the one big flood in divine purpose?
Where did you get this definition? And why do you define a visit by Lord Jesus as not a event external to the witness?
Personal experience means nothing if not tested. My own type of ESP is predicting which elevator will come first, which came in handy when I was a messenger in Manhattan. If I ever tested this skill I’m pretty certain it would wind up being a result of selective memory (I remember the times I got it right) or being able to hear small cues about the location of elevators in the shaft. Ditto for all.
I can believe that people think they see ghosts out of some inner need. But wouldn’t this be fulfilled much better if they knew the ghost was real?
Let’s keep HP Lovecraft out if it, could we? Seriously, I’m not believing in any higher beings until I get their business cards.
So the scripture writers fails prob and stat. I feel for them. The profitability of casinos is proof that chance is not supernatural.
Do you have any evidence of smaller flood where a remnant is saved as opposed to almost everyone? It is not like floods were unknown - I’m sure the writers of the Bible knew all about the Nile floods, and they took the story from Gilgamesh anyway.
There are lots of flood stories in various cultures. I suspect survival stories are popular - look at all after the bomb stories in the '50s and '60s. Everybody like to see themselves, walking around with no one else, to quote Dylan. Back in talk.origins days someone posted a collection of flood stories. Lots of them had a family as the sole survivors, until the flood receded, they landed, and a bunch of other people came walking over the hill. Not the same story at all.
That is Genesis 6:5 - the Nephilum are in the previous verse. If you work out the timeline from Adam to Noah, it is clear that these giants in the earth had to be still around when the flood started, and thus were evil. Now, how could a holy child of God sire an evil son? It makes no sense in our current view of God, but makes perfect sense in the ancient view of gods as really powerful and immortal people, who have powerful children like Hercules and Siegmund.
Please tell me where I can find examples of this wisdom - hopefully not including slaves and women treated as property.
Absolutely not. Part of the learning is knowing that the person is capable of determining what is real irrespective of what the authorities say. This is one of the steps of personal freedom in learning what truth is.
Again how do you get their were evil, the scriptures clearly state:
[QUOTE= Gen 6:5b]
They (Nephlium) were the heroes of old, men of renown.
[/QUOTE]
Hero’s denote a positive
and
It is clear that God took mankind and everything beneath mankind, but Nephilum would be above mankind.
Again you have cited no claim that the Nephlium are evil, if you can do that then we can go into how it would be possible. But I’ve looked it’s just not there.
Seek and you will find. But before we can go into examples. In our modern society we heard about the glass ceiling and different forms of slavery, so why would not a accurate societal model not include such things? I would expect to find such things because that’s why is observable today in society.
You constantly make claim that you “KNOW” what God does or thinks, So I find it hard to accept anything you post, you should state you believe it is God…belief is not FACT!!!
I did not say he suffered suffacation. As was stated by another, the Swami wasn’t dead,just put himself in sort of a state of hibernation.
This sounds like a being that is cruel down to the core. If the being created mankind he didn’t treat them with love, but knew before he created them they would fail so he could play mean games with them, and didn’t consider the harming of helpless small children or babies. Plus the fact that it would seem he sent special people he chose to go into a town and kill every one so they could have the land(Joshua) for one.
Sounds like you would like Jesus then.
The prophets never used the qualifier that they believe this is what God said nor did Jesus. They stated what they know God was telling them they stated it as truth regardless of what others felt or if they accepted it.
Using scriptures as the example there would be more to call into question if someone uses the qualifier that they believe God means X then just stating it as if you know it.
And that’s the point, God is one, and to become one with God, to Know God.
They were not being truthful, they were they should have said." they believed God was telling them something". There were many gods, and many different beliefs,even the Bible mentions other Gods. Years ago, people didn’t understand how the brain can cause delusions. Just as some people say the Virgin Mother appeared to them. The mind can create an illusion to help a person in great distress, but it isn’t reality.
Because another human says God said or did something doesn’t make it true unless they can prove with out a shadow of a doubt.
If this were true that God speaks to people directly then you must accept that God sent an angel to Muhammad to give a new direction to the people. Muhammad’s word would be just as valid as any other human or writer.
Why? Then you should have to qualify all you speak with "I believe’. It’s actually a ridiculous request. And in a world where God regularly speaks to His children equally ridiculous for you to require them to.
Though it obviously bothers you that people are so bold in their knowing God.
There are still many gods. Did you think they all left?
I suspect that people knew about the mind’s ability to do such things, including use of mind altering substances and deep meditation since antiquity. I would say our modern understanding is still behind the ancient ways though there are some channels of advancement in modern times.
The biggest difference is these delusions were in the past looked towards for answers, while in modern society we generally fear them and look for a medical cure.
This may be true for the scientific definition of the word ‘fact’, but truth does not require consensus, proof or repeatability.
In truth I tell you I had a nickel from the 40’s in my possession the other day, I have since spent it. You can never prove it, nor can I, yet it is true and will forever be true.
In things of God we deal with truths, not facts.
God does send angels and archangels to people, there is no reason to dismiss the claim of Muhammad, because what he claims is normal. Though because I have had very little exposure to Islam I really don’t know enough about it to say anything except it is very possible and actually likely and even foretold in scriptures. Islam was not what God lead me to and it is not a area of expertise of mine however so I pass on what happened in this case.
I believe you have brought up Muhammad before, my question if you did why did you select him?
So, they could tread water really well then. And your very cite calls them men. (I don’t know what the Hebrew actually says.) Were Noah and his children a tiny population compared to the remaining Nephilum? Did they go back to heaven? Did they have children, and were those children men or not?
Really, you’d do better making logical sense out of a Roadrunner cartoon.
A glass ceiling is far different from not being allowed to own property, let alone be treated as property. Being a wage slave is a lot different from being an actual slave.
Not if you don’t have freedom. The difference is that in our ‘physical’ society the slaves we do have don’t know they are slaves, they don’t see the chains that hold them to the desk till they are allowed to leave.
Slavery is very much alive and well though it is very deceptive in it’s application. If God pealed back the veil of what we call reality we would see a vastly different world, much crueler with slavery & cast systems firmly in place. Quite honestly it is very sad to think about, but shows the reason for our flesh and blood existence which makes it difficult to see what is really happening.
Don’t be so sure we are that advanced over our past, just better at hiding things.