And again -- who IS Sarah Palin

[Oy]

@Sarahfeena

He said she’s gotten by on her looks. I want to know at what point this started. Has she gotten by on her looks all her life? Or did this only just start? And where’s his evidence?

I don’t believe that it’s only meant to be blunt. I believe it shows underlying misogyny. I have never, EVER heard anyone say such a thing about a man. EVER. Certainly, never around here. If you have an example, I’d love to see it.

Well, I can’t speak directly to DtC’s rationale for this, but I would say that good looks these days is a criterion for any reasonably young candidate, just as it is for any female pop singer. I believe I mentioned in an earlier thread that there have been several psych studies done that show that people tend to assign good qualities (both intelligence and good nature) to strangers they think good looking far more than they do to people whom they consider unattractive. This is something I learned back in my Psych college class in the early 90s, so I can’t provide a cite for it, and at this hour, I’m not engaging my Google-Fu. But it’s true, and believe me, the current Republican party is very aware of it. I think Karl Rove is an utterly amoral man, but he’s got an excellent grasp on what will and will not play with your typical, right-leaning American voter. Not that he wanted Palin, but his influence has permeated McCain’s campaign to some extent.

But I disagree with Dio that the primary qualification for Palin was her appearance. I think her gender was the first qualification. I think her right wing evangelical Christian extremity (she believes we are fighting God’s war in Iraq) was the second qualification. I think either the fact that she was a governor or her looks came after that. That being said, I don’t think they vetted her much, no matter what they claim. I think this was an impulse on McCain’s part.

[JThunder]

@Leaper

Sarahfeena: Do you believe Palin would’ve been chosen if she’d been a man, all other things being absolutely the same?

Suppose that Sarahfeena replies with “Of course not!” How does this prove that Palin has only been by based on her looks? Or for that matter, that she was only selected because she’s a woman?

Do you think that these conclusions would logically follow?

[Indistinguishable]

@Sarahfeena

I don’t believe that it’s only meant to be blunt. I believe it shows underlying misogyny. I have never, EVER heard anyone say such a thing about a man. EVER. Certainly, never around here. If you have an example, I’d love to see it.

Well, it’ll be tough here without the search function. But from the Internet at large, there’s this (about Mitt Romney being passed over for VP, which may make it a particularly apt or a particularly poor example), this (which I think is a very apt example indeed), and this (which employs both the vagina and penis ones in parallel).

[Oy]

@Shayna

And a vagina. Don’t forget the vagina.

Otherwise, I agree with everything you just posted.

Silly, you can’t see the vagina!

[gonzomax]

She was strictly a political choice. The repubs do not have a hard core that is able to elect them. They have to augment their numbers by appealing to single issue voters. It is not that they will deliver anything. They just need them election day. Then they are through with them.
She is supposed to deliver the religious right. They are not satisfied with McCain. She says the things they want to hear. If she gets some women to go their way that will be a bonus. They are like the gun nuts who vote against their own interests because they are so easily convinced that someone wants their guns.
If someone said 2 weeks ago that Palin should run for president ,it would have been a joke. As VP to an old ,sick president ,she should be vetted on that level. She fails miserably.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

My cite is that she’s quite obviously underqualified, and that there are a boatload of Republican women who are vastly more qualified than Palin is. Some of them are even social conservatives. I can’t see any advantage she has over those women other than her looks. The sexism card is not going to work. Everyone knows that’s fraudulent.

While her looks were probably considered a bit (doesn’t hurt she is easy on the eyes…the Dems have an attractive lineup both male and female and being photogenic in politics is a bonus) I think it was more McCain thinking she’s a woman so can get disaffected Clinton women voters, has solid social conservative creds and is from a remote state with little scrutiny and she has little political background. What skeletons could she possibly have in her closet?

As for bashing Palin it looks more and more that she deserves most of the lumps she is getting (not about her pregnant teen though…that is just stupid). As a choice for VP she really seems rather awful. That people shorthand it to “Miss Wasilla” is hardly surprising. People shorthand and name call ALL the candidates. Because she is a woman she is immune from this?

[Oy]

@Whack-a-Mole

Because she is a woman she is immune from this?

Yes, because we horrible liberals are “playing the woman card.” :rolleyes:

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Sarahfeena

So what about her other accomplishments? All because she’s just a pretty face, right?

You didn’t answer the question. What makes her more qualified than Snowe or Hutchinson?

[Leaper]

@JThunder

Suppose that Sarahfeena replies with “Of course not!” How does this prove that Palin has only been by based on her looks? Or for that matter, that she was only selected because she’s a woman?

Do you think that these conclusions would logically follow?

I didn’t want or intend to address the “looks” issue.

As for the female issue, my logic was that if you had two versions of Palin, exactly identical in every respect except for gender, and you think that the male version would never have been selected as the VP candidate, that (to me) is at the very least a strong indicator that gender was a major factor in the pick.

I’m probably missing your point here; please feel free to elaborate if so.

[Sam_Stone]

@Oy

It seems to me that in the disastrous event that this woman should become president, we would see the same kind of incompetent ideology and loyalty/crony-ism first policies that W followed for roughly the first six years of his administration. I don’t see a thing about her that says “Change” except that she has boobs.

Just my $.02

Maybe if you paid attention to what she’s actually done, rather than just listened to the smears from the Kos Kids, you’d see why McCain liked her.

You might also see that she’s far from a ‘loyalty/crony-ism’ politician.

For example, would it interest you to know that when her own Republican party passed a bill that would have refused spousal benefits and health insurance to same-sex couples, she vetoed it? She decided that signing it would violate her oath of office because the bill was unconstitutional. Her own party wanted her to sign it to ‘stand up to the courts’, and she told them it was wrong. Bush would never do that.

Would a crony veto 268 milllion dollars in pork spending, much of it coming from her own party?

This stuff is actually what attracted McCain. I’m sure being female was an added bonus, but mainly he liked her reform instincts.

[Shayna]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

You didn’t answer the question. What makes her more qualified than Snowe or Hutchinson?

I can answer that (at least in McCain’s view). Snowe and Hutchison are both pro-choice.

I would’ve been shitting my pants if he’d’ve had the balls to choose one of them!

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

The troopergate scandal undermines any attempt to defend her as a reformer or as a cronyist.

[Sam_Stone]

@Diogenes_the_Cynic

The troopergate scandal undermines any attempt to defend her as a reformer or as a cronyist.

How, pray tell, do you make that logic work? Do you know anything at all about this ‘scandal’?

For example, did you know that the guy she fired himself says she never once asked him to fire the trooper, or pressured him in any way? In fact, if her side of the story is correct, it’s another example of her reform-minded tendencies - she says he was fired for not doing his job properly. Why would you automatically assume she’s lying?

Firing him for not getting rid of the trooper makes no sense anyway. For one thing, the incident happened quite a ways in the past (like a year and a half or something), before she was Governor. And at the time, she didn’t even want to report it at first because she didn’t want to wreck her brother-in-law’s career. And there’s no evidence then or since that she ever pressured anyone to have the guy fired. When the ‘scandal’ erupted, she willingly gave investigators so much access to documentation that they didn’t even need to get a subpoena. A refreshing change.

In fact, one of the reasons it’s easy to find Republicans in Alaska willing to bad-mouth her is because she’s made a lot of enemies in her own party by breaking up exactly the kind of Republican cronyism that has gotten the Republicans so much justifiable condemnation in the rest of the country. THAT is why McCain likes her, because that’s what he wants to do in Washington.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Sam_Stone

Maybe if you paid attention to what she’s actually done, rather than just listened to the smears from the Kos Kids, you’d see why McCain liked her.

You might also see that she’s far from a ‘loyalty/crony-ism’ politician.

I posted this in Post #28 but will re-post here. This looks like loyalty/cronyism to me and when only mayor of a tiny town.

If a small-town mayor ever ruled with an iron fist — it was Palin. Eleven days after taking office in 1996, she mailed letters to each of the city’s top managers requesting that they resign as a test of loyalty.

The Anchorage Daily News at the time reported the strange events: (via Nexis)

*Mayor Sarah Palin sent the resignation requests Thursday to Police Chief Irl Stambaugh, public works director Jack Felton, finance director Duane Dvorak and Mary Ellen Emmons, the head of libraries. A fifth director — John Cooper, who oversaw the city museum — resigned earlier this month after Palin eliminated his position.*

Cooper initially resisted resigning, but to no avail. Palin also later fired the police chief, saying she knew in her “heart” that he did not support her. She left the head of libraries a letter saying she was out — though Palin later decided to spare the librarian after being convinced that she would tow the line.

SOURCE: Palin: The Iron-Fist Mayor?

[CanvasShoes]

@gonzomax

Bristol likely comes from her sportcasting days. Bristol ,Conn. is the home of ESPN.

(I’m a long time Alaskan, I’ve lived mostly in Anchorage, but I have lived in Wasilla, in Nikiski, and in Slow…er Soldotna going on 40 years now).

Bristol is the name of a bay here that is a big commercial fishing area.

Re: other points brought up, or worries expressed.

She wasn’t for the “bridge to nowhere” she fought against it, along with most of we 650k Alaskans, and she won it won’t be built.

Other than the author of the infamous “email” most Wasilla residents, as reported many times in our VERY left wing main newspaper, were happy with her “cleaning house” when it came to the politics as usual there.

Regarding the (paraphrased from the email) “set up unknown people in the place of fired Wasilla officials”. Since when did unknown come to mean incapable? See below, they must be doing something right, unknown or not.

Wasilla was a an ugly, incestuous, little dirt hole back in the day, it’s now a boomtown. And that’s a fairly recent, (last 5-7 years or so), development. I lived there back when it was an ugly little dirt hole, not when Sarah was in charge, so I don’t know if she’s part of the reason or not, but the changes for the better occurred on her watch…soooo.

And most of the rest of us were VERY happy with her cleaning house regarding Ted Stevens “little problem” with Veco, not to mention the several other indictments and/or convictions of crooked politicians lately.

Not to mention her fight to ensure that the first deal out the door, as set up by our former governer Murky (Murkowski, HIGHLY in the pocket of special interests), wasn’t our only choice, that we got the best deal possible from the oil companies regarding the gas pipeline.

There were some Alaskans who freaked out over this…“OMG, if we don’t do it NOW, if we don’t bend to the big oil companies will, they’ll just buy their natural gas elsewhere and we’ll be screwed forever and ever and so will our grandchildren”. So far, so good, it appears as if both the oil companies and we Alaskans will come to a deal we’re both happy with. That wouldn’t have been the case had she not stood her ground with them.

“Troopergate” (though it wasn’t called that until the national media got ahold of it) has been on the books for several months, so far the investigators have found no orders to Monegan from Sarah Palin to fire trooper Wooten.

Has she, throughout her career, likely made mistakes in judgment, or made some enemies? I’d bet yes. Who hasn’t? She’s human just like everyone else. It’s amazing that on Friday morning no one knew who she even was, now thanks to the wonderfully honest and completely unbiased press, everyone just knows that she’s an evil female dictator ready to off the newly elected prez and send our country into ruination.

All this heartache about her being an unknown possible VP, and yet so many Americans are ready to vote for Obama who has far less experience (Palin was starting on her 5th year of executive service when Obama was just starting ), particularly regarding foreign policy (at least Sarah is the head of the state Guard), and ZERO accomplishments (no, community organizer, and being one of several hundred senators and congressmen to sign all of the same bills doesn’t count).

Historically, the VPs frequently underwent OJT and that was not thought of as being some horrendous out of place occurrence.

And while we’re on the subject, do you all know something about John McCain’s health that the rest of us don’t? He’s 72, not 92! Besides which, being over 60 isn’t an instant death knell. My granddad was still growing his prized tomatoes at 93. You all act as if Senator McCain is going to keel over 2 minutes after taking office!

Last, but not least, Alaskan girls Kick Ass. We’re not afraid to break our fingernails, or get dirty. She may be pretty, but she ain’t no “Barbie” caribou or otherwise, she’s a tough cookie. Just because you all don’t know her, and are hearing all of this ridiculous gossip, as cooked up by the national media (or one email from a disgruntled Alaskan), don’t believe all you read or hear.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Sam_Stone

In fact, one of the reasons it’s easy to find Republicans in Alaska willing to bad-mouth her is because she’s made a lot of enemies in her own party by breaking up exactly the kind of Republican cronyism that has gotten the Republicans so much justifiable condemnation in the rest of the country. THAT is why McCain likes her, because that’s what he wants to do in Washington.

I have no proof of this but honestly given what I just cited above and other things I have read I am seeing her breaking up cronyism in her own party NOT as a do-gooder but as someone killing off those who are not HER cronies.

Mind you my initial impression of her was along the lines of what you just posted and I was actually impressed at a first glance (not her looks). You’ll have to take my word I have reluctantly changed my (albeit not strongly held) opinion of her.

[Spiny_Norman]

@Sam_Stone

For example, would it interest you to know that when her own Republican party passed a bill that would have refused spousal benefits and health insurance to same-sex couples, she vetoed it? She decided that signing it would violate her oath of office because the bill was unconstitutional.

Good on her for not being blatantly unconstitutional. But isn’t that setting the bar just a little low? It’s not as if she’s making it a secret that her arm is being twisted - from her press release:

@Sarah Palin telling the uppity homosexuals not to start feeling smug

The Governor’s veto does not signal any change or modification to her disagreement with the action and order by the Alaska Supreme Court. It is the Governor’s intention to work with the legislature and to give the people of Alaska an opportunity to express their wishes and intentions whether these benefits should continue.

The quote is from Googlecache, apparently the original has disappeared, inexplicably.

Her own party wanted her to sign it to ‘stand up to the courts’, and she told them it was wrong. Bush would never do that.

Probably true, but that goes to condemn Bush rather than praise Palin. “Never once signed off on unconstitutional legislation” is very faint praise indeed. True, Bush has lowered the bar, but that’s no reason to praise people for vucking the system for doing the very basic minimum required in the job description.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

@Sam_Stone

How, pray tell, do you make that logic work? Do you know anything at all about this ‘scandal’?

For example, did you know that the guy she fired himself says she never once asked him to fire the trooper, or pressured him in any way? In fact, if her side of the story is correct, it’s another example of her reform-minded tendencies - she says he was fired for not doing his job properly. Why would you automatically assume she’s lying?

Firing him for not getting rid of the trooper makes no sense anyway. For one thing, the incident happened quite a ways in the past (like a year and a half or something), before she was Governor. And at the time, she didn’t even want to report it at first because she didn’t want to wreck her brother-in-law’s career. And there’s no evidence then or since that she ever pressured anyone to have the guy fired. When the ‘scandal’ erupted, she willingly gave investigators so much access to documentation that they didn’t even need to get a subpoena. A refreshing change.

In fact, one of the reasons it’s easy to find Republicans in Alaska willing to bad-mouth her is because she’s made a lot of enemies in her own party by breaking up exactly the kind of Republican cronyism that has gotten the Republicans so much justifiable condemnation in the rest of the country. THAT is why McCain likes her, because that’s what he wants to do in Washington.

I think you’re behind on the story. They’ve now got emails and phone calls directly showing her involvement in trying to pressure that dude. It’s game over now in Alaska. The only question whetehr she’ll be indicted before the election.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@CanvasShoes

All this heartache about her being an unknown possible VP, and yet so many Americans are ready to vote for Obama who has far less experience (Palin was starting on her 5th year of executive service when Obama was just starting ), particularly regarding foreign policy (at least Sarah is the head of the state Guard), and ZERO accomplishments (no, community organizer, and being one of several hundred senators and congressmen to sign all of the same bills doesn’t count).

You had me for a bit and I was happy to see an “inside” view posted here although I thought some of it was glossed over.

However, when I hit the part I just quoted I realized this is nothing but republican talking points.

I have not seen any rational assessment of Palin’s versus Obama’s experience in any way honestly suggest her experience comes close to trumping Obama’s. The difference is huge. Of particular note is severely overestimating what “executive” experience you get being mayor of a town of 7,000 as well as handing her experience because on paper she is head of the state Guard (see links earlier where one of her supporters, when pressed, could come up with no example of her actually having commanded the Guard to do anything).

[Sam_Stone]

@Whack-a-Mole

I have no proof of this but honestly given what I just cited above and other things I have read I am seeing her breaking up cronyism in her own party NOT as a do-gooder but as someone killing off those who are not HER cronies.

Mind you my initial impression of her was along the lines of what you just posted and I was actually impressed at a first glance (not her looks). You’ll have to take my word I have reluctantly changed my (albeit not strongly held) opinion of her.

Yeah, I think that’s fair. I already posted my misgivings - which have nothing to do with her sex or education or experience, but with judgment, is that she might be a little too strident and demanding. That’s why I drew the comparison to Arnie in California - he came in in his first year as this reformer who was going to clean house, and got right schooled in what it was like to play in the big leagues by the state Democrats. If Palin tried to play rough with the house or Senate from her position as VP, all hell would probably break loose. At best, government would be a little more dysfunctional (if that’s possible).

I think that’s a fair charge that should warrant consideration. On the other hand, given the amount of corruption in Washington, maybe she and McCain are the perfect people do so something about it. One thing about Palin is that she’s in no one’s back pocket. The oil companies don’t like her, because she raised their taxes (and bucked her own party in so doing).

Not a perfect candidate, by any stretch. Not nearly the most qualified (but if that mattered, it would be Biden/Obama, not Obama/Biden). But she has some good qualities. For myself, I’m just going to wait and listen to what she has to say, and how she says it. The debate will be interesting.

I just think she should get a fair hearing, and not be demonized like the left and the media are trying so hard to do.