As for who is at fault, in Ohio, they have expanded Medicaid. All Ohioans have access to prenatal care, and it’s free under Obamacare. I’m not sure what else you expect the government to do.
Not exactly sure what you’re answering here. I was refuting Kasich’s (and apparently your) point that it was the fault of the black community that people within it go for prenatal care later than white people. I wasn’t asking for a solution to the problem, I just recognize that it exists.
Prenatal care is now free for all, so that eliminates the economic reason for delaying care.
Right…and the pregnant single mother who already has kids and is working two jobs to pay for them and the new life she bears is going to have the same amount of free time as the mother who (maybe) works one job while her husband is off working.
No, really, it doesn’t.
As Johnny has already noted - economic reason goes beyond the simplicity of only paying for the doctor -
It includes things such as opening hours of the clinic, clinic location, support services, even awareness that you are pregnant in the first place.
All of which can be looked at with various different remedies to see if there are barriers within different communities to preventing early pre-natal care.
I’d also hazard a guess that part of the reason is going to be cultural -
A “she’ll be right” attitude verses a “wow, pregnancy is a big fucking deal I better get down to the doctor right now”
None of this is about “fault” - it’s all about differences in attitudes and circumstances that lead to different outcomes.
- This thread is a perfect example of what my personal definition of “anti PC” is - a discussion that’s happening elsewhere. It’s “PC” to try and shut down debate on why there are differences in infant mortality and decry it as racist when clearly there ARE differences. If we don’t recognise that there are differences - how do we talk about whether they need “fixing” and what can be done about it?
How long does a hookup take as compared to a doctor’s appointment? If she has time to get pregnant, she has time to go to a doctor’s appointment.
You’re right, but there is also a personal responsibility element to it. An unplanned pregnancy is going to be taken care of later than a planned one, for example, because the person is likely going to take longer to be aware of it, and/or might be in denial. Infant mortality rates could be related to the marriage gap as well as the income gap. Married couples are just going to do a better job of planning a pregnancy out than a single person.
This is unnecessarily crass, but more to the point, incomparable. “Hookups” can occur at any time. How many doctors have late evening and/or weekend hours? Most people I know have to take time off from work for a doctor appointment. Even when there are early evening and weekend appointment times available, they are the most difficult to get without a long wait time for an open date.
Rally glad you know her that well. Maybe you should be a social worker in her neighborhood.
Poor people aren’t likely to work M-F, 9-5. Assuming that that is when people work tends to be a misconception that middle class folks have. And it’s mostly true: when you’re in the middle class. Secondly, one of the few nice things about working low paying jobs is that it tends to actually be very easy to get time off. “Flexible schedules!” is another way of saying, “Minimum wage” on the help wanted signs, but they aren’t lying about the flexibility. The very nature of low wage work is that they don’t really need you all that much. Middle class people are also used to being essential. When you’re poor, you’re not under that misconception. The answer to “Hey, I need to take tomorrow off for a doctor’s appointment” is usually “Yeah, whatever.” with the manager not even looking up.
Also, when you’ve spent half your life working minimum wage jobs or managing people who work minimum wage jobs, you find out there are two kinds of poor people, with little in the way of middle ground: those trying to better themselves, and morons that never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Holding poor people blameless for their own decisions is also primarily a misconception that middle class folks who only know other middle class folks have. Probably haven’t met enough people determined to ruin their own lives.
Also, I’m assuming that the woman had more free time before, you know, she got pregnant, which adds tremendous time draining responsibilities. Plus, as
And this. Hook-ups don’t have some time of time restriction; a woman can hook-up when she gets off work, has time on the weekends, etc. Availability of a pre-natal doctor is far more limited.
As to your first question: a hook up (although not a particularly enjoyable one) that ends in pregnancy can be less than a minute. A doctor’s appointment is going to take, at best, 30 minutes to an hour.
While I would like a cite for this. Anecdotally, I’ve seen that they often don’t have the luxury of a stable schedule. It’s far more chaotic; with them likely working more hours and having to work on the weekend.
Uh, have you ever had a “poor person’s” job in the last 5 or 10 years? Because what you just stated is utter nonsense. I worked as a waiter going through law school and I had to fight tooth and nail for any time off, even when it directly related to my education. It sure wasn’t as easy as you describe. Plus, going to a pre-natal doctor isn’t just a one time visit. It’s continuous and the idea that poor people can just get off work without the manager even looking up because they’re not needed is absurd.
Well, I don’t know where you live that people pay minimum wage for essential, noninterchangeable employees, but that’s just weird. The very nature of minimum wage work is that employees are easy come, easy go.
I neither stated nor implied this. Of course job security generally comes with higher wages and specialization. I was never contesting that. What I do take issue with is your apparent belief that minimum wage jobs afford no, or very little, job security.
I think you’re over-generalizing and over simplifying. I think it partly depends on what sector the job is in. There are alot of sectors that pay minimum wage and they all have varying degrees of turnover difficulty. Sometimes it just comes down to how much work the manager want go go through/delegate. Even a new employee at McDoanld’s has to be trained on all the various equipment, learn/memorize the menu, etc. There’s a built-in incentive to make employers want employees (even those who only work for minimum wage) to stay. They might be more easily replaceable, but there not worthless. The real problem is how much authority the employer has over the employee in minimum wage jobs. The common conception that minimum wage jobs are “easy come, easy go” allows managers to exploit their employees. which, to get back to my original point, is why minimum wage jobs are often chaotic (schedule wise) and workers less likely to get time off. Because, among other things, the employers hold more leverage.
Most fast food places have flexible scheduling, and with managers having to meet tough labor targets, someone calling out can actually be a relief in many cases. Someone wanting the day off a full week in advance is no problem at all unless you just want to be a dick for the sake of being a dick, which was never my policy as a manager. Even just a day’s notice is usually sufficient, as most people want more hours. Because a lot of poor people work part time and want to work full time.
In my experience, lack of time is rarely an issue for poor workers. It sure wasn’t one of my problems when I was a poor worker. The days are looonnngggg when you have nothing to do and no money.
Yeah, if you don’t show up for work it’s often easy to find someone else to take that job. If you need the job, you need to be there.
Because most single moms have sex during work hours.
Please, sex at work is pretty common at fast food and retail places.
Speaking as someone in a minimum wage job: Have you ever considered not spouting off on topics that you obviously know nothing about? Thanks.
He’s the local conservative mouthpiece. Just ignore him.