Amen to this all over the place!! By sheer luck, we picked a local shop that has treated us well for a decade. I knew they were winners when I left my sad old van and asked them to give it a once-over and let me know what it needed. They called later that afternoon and said “Just an oil change. It’s fine.”
One of the stupidest thing I ever encountered was my daughter’s New Beetle when it needed a new headlight. The owner’s manual said to take it to the dealer. (For a headlight???) Luckily, we found instructions with pictures on line. It wasn’t as simple a task as it should have been, but she was able to do it herself. As far as I’m concerned, it was just lazy design.
I patronize a very good mechanic, who has inherited and upheld his father’s reputation for doing necessary work well at reasonable cost.
Example: my dealership told me I’d failed the emissions inspection and needed an entire new exhaust assembly for $800 (and that was 15+years ago). This mechanic, a private shop, passed me on emissions, saying “you have a weak spot in the muffler, but it’s not failing yet.” Next time I needed emissions inspection, two years later, he told me, “the weak spot rusted through, so we spot-welded a bit of metal over it for $40.00, and passed you again.”
His shop is always brimming with business. I regard him as a local treasure.
His team is the reason I am still able to drive a 23-year-old car.
The problem is that you never know when you are being ripped off and when the repair is just expensive. I think I’ve found a good shop I trust (they did repair a broken window motor by installing it backwards (push up to go down etc) but they repaired it for free). The last time I brought it in because one of the windshield washer jets wasn’t working they found a break in the hose and told me that the dealer could replace it for a large fee but they cut the hose down and reattached it and told me to call if it didn’t hold and only charged me $20 and it seems to work fine.
Today, however, I arrived at work and stopped my car to be greeted with a cloud of white steam from under the hood. Google convinced me that this had to be a leak in the cooling system and that it probably shouldn’t be driven (even though it wasn’t overheating). That meant either tow it 25 miles to the guys I trust or go across the street and hope those guys are honest. I was hoping it was a radiator hose but they tell me it’s a crack in the radiator and they want $700 for the repair (which AFAICT is on the high side but not unreasonable for the parts, labor and coolant replacement that is needed-the internet gives a range of 300-700 for this problem). However, how am I to know if it’s merely a cracked hose, which should cost <$100 or the entire radiator needs replacement? All I know is that I shouldn’t drive it until it’s fixed and I am a hostage to the shop because I can’t really take it somewhere else. I don’t think it’s too unreasonable to worry that I could be ripped off.
I’m sad I won’t be going to my local mechanics for a while, since we just bought a brand new SUV. I’ll let the dealer handle everything for the first few years. But the guys who used to work on my cars were great. Ex-students who didn’t hold a grudge and ran a race shop on the side. If you can find people you can trust, stay with them forever!
As a side note, the biggest ripoff artists I’ve encountered have all been big chain places. Crooks, the lot of them.
Funny you should mention a loose torque converter bolt. I got my ass kicked by one once on my own personal car. I had a noise. It sounded like a power steering pump. I rebuilt the pump. Reinstalled and I have the same weird noise that I would have bet my paycheck on was a bad power steering pump.
I took the belt off the PS pump and I swear the non turning pump was still making the same damn noise. (With a bit of practice your hearing can be very directional, mine is)
So I stripped off all the belts except the timing belt and it STILL made the noise. The noise was off the front of the engine. WTF?
I jacked it up and got under the car and then and only then was I able to determine the source of the noise was the bell housing. Turning the engine off I found the lock washer on the TC bolts had lost tension. The solid steel crankshaft is an excellent transmitter of sound. As I found out.
Now in over 40 years of doing this, yours is exactly the second case of that I have every heard of. I think you may have been dealing with a poor diagnosis rather than outright fraud. In other news doctors misdiagnosis things all the time and water is wet. A Doctor’s misdiagnosis is usually not a case for fraud and I think I can make a similar claim for auto technicians. You don’t know what you don’t know.
To give you another example of just how hard noises can be I got a call last week from a tech chasing an intermittent rattle noise from the left from suspension. He had attached wireless chassis ears all over the front end and had been unable to locate the source. He was calling to see if I had any clues. (I didn’t). This tech is a long time master tech I have delt with before and he is very good.
Anyway a few days later his fix report came through with pictures. The cross bar on the roof rack was loose on the left side. The noise traveled down the a pillar and presented itself as a suspension noise. I have no clue how he figured it out but I’m impressed.
Ask the shop if you can stop by and see the radiator. And honest shop will be pleased to have you stop by will be happy to point out exactly what the issue is discuss it with you.
I have even gone so far as to invite customers down to the shop to show them what needs to be done before giving them the estimate so they understand the complexity of the job.
If you still have a bad feeling pay the 25 mile tow bill, it will be better in the long run.
Rick, you misunderstand completely. In Pennsylvania we have a yearly safety inspection and my county (but none of the others around it) has emissions testing. This is an annual requirement that, in truth, probably costs the mechanic money if he doesn’t find anything wrong. His time is valuable and I accept that. What isn’t valuable is the inspection to begin with. Only 20 or so states require inspections at all, and they are not noted for having lower fatalities as a result. But that’s neither here nor there.
The point is that after being compelled to drop money for something of dubious value to begin with, when the mechanic finds something wrong it’s already annoying, and when it’s cheap yet expensive to replace it’s just galling. That’s not the mechanic’s fault, of course, but it does leave someone who knows nothing about cars at the mercy of the mechanic, which is a grifter’s dream scenario. Too many stories have been told to not be a little bit suspicious.
I know cars, even if my ability to repair them doesn’t match my knowledge. I can tell when it’s a scam. Not everybody can, and to them it’s always a scam. That’s just how it is.
So you are pissed at your elected representatives for requiring an inspection but it’s the mechanic’s fault you have to layout $75 for the inspection.
Typical.
I have been blamed for (just a small sample)
Poorly designed components (I didn’t design the POS, I just fix them)
Various laws and regulations (Does it say congressman or assemblyman on my business card?)
Customer’s purchase decision ( To the best of my recollection I was not there holding a gun to your head when you were in the showroom)
Customer’s lack of knowledge (RTFM you idiot. Yeah I know your 1962 Chevy didn’t work this way. Your Chevy didn’t have 4 wheel disc brakes, ABS, and 32 computers on a high speed network etc. Deal with it)
Customer’s abuse of their car (No you can’t do a Dukes of Hazard jump in a stock car without serious damage)
I could go but but you get the point
As I pointed out your ire is directed at the wrong person. Everyone, see what I mean about Rodney Dangerfield? You are pissed about the inspection. Furthermore if I don’t tell you about your brakes being almost worn out I’m an incompetent idiot. If I do tell you I’m a blood sucking fiend that is trying to rip you off. [RD]No respect I tell you, no respect[/RD]
Try as I might to parse this phrase, I just can’t. WTF does it mean?
Finally we have a winner
Seriously you think dishonest auto repair is a grifter’s dream job? I can think of at least a dozen scams that are easier, more lucrative and you don’t have to get greasy.
Based on your previous paragraph I would not be so sure of that.
going to a trusted mechanic. I don’t ever trust “Joes Auto Body Shop” out in the middle of nowhere. Who knows, maybe they are the best in the world, but then again, they can rip me off and I don’t have a lot of recourse. One of the ways I do this is repeat business. I went to the local Firestone for years with my Toyota. When I got my Honda, I went to the dealer while it was in warranty, soon as it was out of warranty, I went back to the Firestone. They remembered me and were happy to have me back.
regular maintenance. I understand this is hard when you are poor. I’ve been there.
Buying a car that has a reputation for longevity. There’s a reason I always buy Toyotas or Hondas, not only is the maintenance relatively cheap, I can still afford it even after it goes out of warranty
this is the biggest one - KNOW YOUR FREAKIN CAR. It is not ok to giggle and say “I don’t know anything about cars”. I am certainly no whiz but I don’t need to be to know when the car mechanic is bullshitting me - I just got that done last year, why are you telling me I need it again? You should have some general idea, if not a spreadsheet, of repairs done on your car
I really, really, REALLY do not mind the yearly inspection at all, and I don’t really like that not every state has them! I wouldn’t mind if it was passed as a federally mandated statute, I’ve seen some of the clunkers people are driving on the roads in the states where they don’t have them. This is a public road, everyone drives on it, it behooves me to be sure your car is not a clunker!
Rick, I can give you a perfect example of a cheap, yet expensive repair. My '92 Jeep Cherokee blew a rear main oil seal while I was on a driving vacation to my parents (3500km one way) with a 6yo and a 9 yo in tow. The new seal was $8, the labour, which necessitated time on the lift to separate the tranny and engine was almost $700. Add in the hotel costs for our unplanned two day stay and it comes in well over $1000.
Had I been at home I could have done this in my garage, although it would have been messy.
To be fair, the Chrysler dealer did cut me slack on the rate and slotted me in despite being blocked solid. It sucks but it was necessary.
TLDR: The perception of an $8 part needing $700 labour could be seen as a cheap, yet expensive repair.
Your repair cost $708 dollars, period.
What is the difference between these repairs?
Case A
Part. $8
Labor $700
Case B
Part $700
Labor $8
Case C
Part $354
Labor $354
There is no difference, they are all $708 repairs.
(Before you nitpick yes the tax on the parts will be different, doesn’t matter the cost for the repair is $708)
Let me ask you this if you have a car that needs a stereo, call it $1,000 for the unit and $50 to install is this a cheap, but expensive repair, an expensive, but cheap repair, or a one thousand and fifty dollar hit to you wallet?
I’m not arguing that there is ANY difference to my wallet.
The difference (to me, at least) is that had I been home I would not have been at the dealers at all for this repair as I am capable of doing it myself. Even factoring in my time, I could have done the repair for far less even if I amortized my tools and time.
Perceptually, spending $700 on an $8 part FEELS like I’m spending a lot of money on a inexpensive part.
In reality, a handmade acoustic guitar is made with about $150 worth of wood and bits. Once you factor in the labour involved this suddenly becomes anywhere between $1000-$30000. I don’t begrudge the shop their time, and I certainly was happy they could get me on my way in two days versus the several days it would have taken me to do the job.
FWIW, I’d call the stereo example an expensive head unit, but cheap install. Perception, not necessarily reality.
