Sub judice rules apply to pre-verdict coverage of criminal trials in many common law and Napoleaonic code legal systems. They are a form of prior restraint of the press. The aim is to avoid contamination of the minds of potential jurors.
To Americans, this often sounds an horrific fetter on the freedom of the press. However, to non-Americans, their system of no prior restraint often looks like trial by media.
Both systems have their pros and cons.
And as for the OP: What Zoff said.
The real question is: Did the drugs she was on cause her to go psycho?
The one thing that she, the Japanese schoolhouse killer and the Columbine killers had in common was the fact that they were using SSRI drugs(i.e.Prozac and it’s ilk)
The makers of paxil just paid 8 million dollars to a family who’s husband went nuts. Is this another case of that?
http://www.drugawareness.org/Archives/3rdQtr_2001/060601Paxil.html
After reading this case, I’m starting to think that the wife was totally subservient to the husband. She followed his orders, no matter what. He got sick of the kids, and ordered wifey to drown them because he was too gutless to do the job himself.
Of course, that’s just speculation. But it would honestly not suprise me if it were true.
Are you being sarcastic or ridiculous?
I am astonished at the eagerness to blame this tragedy on the husband.
This woman had a PSYCHOTIC BREAK. Her own brain chemistry is to blame. (In fact, I believe the Newsweek article on the case points out that she had recently been taken off of an anti-psychotic drug she had been taking. Not a good move, in hindsight.)
It would be nice to see a little sympathy for the husband, who has lost his wife and children at one stroke. He did not “cause” his wife’s psychosis.
All I see here are a hell of a lot of assumptions. No one here knows enough about any of this to make an educatd statement.
Speculation & villification may be a hoot, but it is low sport at its worst, if you ask me.
Not sure why this is even in GD. Maybe IMHO.
No one is debating facts here, just pulling ASSumptions from…somewhere…
I don’t think we should be too hard on the father because he didn’t seem to be hysterical when on TV. If something like that happened to me, I’d be laughing my ass off. That’s how I react to horrible news. Would that reaction automatically make me look guilty? People deal with trajedy in unique ways.
Highly unlikely, considering that she had been taken off them soon after the birth of kid #5.
From what I’ve read, the only wrongdoing that I see on the part of the father is that he failed to realize the severity of his wife’s illness.
When someone becomes depressed to the point of attempting suicude, it should be painfully obvious to anyone with detectable brainwave activity that the last thing that person needs is to be subjected to the severe stress that invariably goes along with raising a baby. Yet it never occured to him that maybe it would be a good idea to rethink the whole “we’ll just have as many kids as come along” idea, even after being warned by her doctor that PPD can recur after having another baby.
And then he left her alone with the kids soon after she was taken off medication. Clearly, he must have a few screws loose himself.
There’s nothing wrong with having 8 or 10 kids if you’re certain you can care for them. Problems arise when parents fail to realistically asses the maximum number of children they’re physically, mentally, and financially capable of caring for.
Shaky Jake wrote:
Don’t worry, bro, I beat you hands down.
The story in Newsweek says that she had been raised Catholic, and he was a Methodist. I’d say it was likely that she didn’t believe in birth control. I think it’s likely that he is only guilty of not recognizing how bad off she was because he didn’t want to see it.
This reaction to mental illness is more common than anyone seems to want to admit. It’s probably perfectly natural to try to demonize someone else to avoid the realization that the same thing could happen in our own families. I speak as one whose depression was missed completely by my own family, until I dropped out of college and ended up the homeless for a while.
I’m glad to see that I am not the only one who is more than a bit miffed to see people trying to lay the guilt for all of this on the shoulders of the father. Exactly why should he have “seen it coming?” Maybe there were signs that he should have noticed that might have tipped him off so that he could get some chld-care help, but I can almost guarantee you that it wouldn’t have even crossed his mind that she would systematically drown those poor kids. And from one report, she had to chase the oldest one down to complete the murder. I believe in severe postpartum depression and I know how kids can get under your skin to the point of fury, but I can’t help but wonder how you can NOT come to your senses when you have to actually chase one of your victims down. I have to wonder too if people want to blame the father because it seems so much more reprehensible that children can die at the hands of their mother. By laying it to the father’s charge, perhaps we feel that the sanctity of motherhood remains unviolated.
What makes me think that the father masterminded the murders? For starters, he’s just too casual about the whole mess. That right there should be enough to get him investigated.
I just can’t believe that he’s totally innocent for some reason.
What do you know about the case and the people involved besides the fact that the father wasn’t “sufficiently” distressed on camera?
Your stance only has merit if you see the father for many hours every day and can confirm that he’s ALWAYS stoic about the murders. I’m not at all surprised that he’s not getting emotional on camera. I wouldn’t either (I don’t think–who really knows?). I believe in keeping emotional expressions out of the public eye – and so may Mr. Yates. Surely, you are not saying that is wrong behavior?
That’s true, and it could be that the reality of this hasn’t really set in. It is so horrific, that maybe his mind just isn’t capable of dealing with his grief right now, so he is in shock, or compartmentalizing it until he can try to deal with it. Everyone is different. I wouldn’t want to be in his shoes for anything in the world.
Wow. Great logic.
You know, you’re protesting his actions far too much.
What are you trying to cover up?
“Me thinks he doth protest too much…”
So what crime should you be innuendosly convicted of?
Schmuck.
This thread seems to me to be divided into two camps. Those who are convinced that the father is somehow the cause or mastermind of the killings, and those who have reserved judgement. While those who assume the guilt of the father are most certainly entitled to their opinions, such judgement is ridiculous. The small amount of information we have is arrived at second hand, and most of those advocating some guilt on the part of the father have arrived at such a conclusion simply because of his conduct on television.
I think that all of us are ill-equipped to understand what is happening here. It is beyond our experience, beyond any natural capacity for us to rationally assess it. Hell, I’d argue the whole thing wasn’t rational at all.
Our judgements are pointless. We lack the information to make a sound judgement, and trusting a gut feeling in many cases is a very bad idea. Both the mother and the father will be assessed by the police, who will use all the information they have to make a decision as to who to try. If, god forbid, this whole nasty mess gets even worse than it seems now, there are legal institutions in place to determine guilt and innocence. They are not perfect, but I would submit to them any day before I would surrender to one, or even one hundred people’s ‘gut feelings.’
It was, as stated earlier, the mother’s brain chemistry that set her off. She was taken off Haldol, a very powerful and extreme drug that stops psychotic episodes. Taking her off of it was a very bad idea.
If the father did “mastermind” it, what could he be tried of? His wife drowned their kids, not him. Conspiracy to do harm? I think he is innocent, and that he is being tried by his emotions. Posters, have you worked or lived with him enough to know if he is always emotionally restrained? What if he were a screaming, crying wreck? Would you say that he is just “covering” for his part in the deaths?
What has gone before:
Me: This is not a sensible plan…(SNIP) A couple who “just has as many kids as come along” will, if they stick to this plan, wind up with, what? Ten children? Twelve? Fifteen? More?
Shaky Jake: First, what is so senseless or irresponsible about this, based solely on number of kids? My wife is one of seven, I have aunts who had 8 and 10. Not a deranged killer among the moms. While it may not be your cup of tea (and isn’t mine - see “vasectomy”), there is nothing inherently wrong or bad about large families -at least “locally” (not considering impacts on population growth and environment/resource use)
Me: I’d say that the decision to adhere to their plan and keep having babies was the husband’s. The wife simply lacked the will to resist him.
Shaky Jake: Perhaps, but again perhaps not. As far as we know, she wanted kid #5 more than he did. What is your opinion based on? Your refusal to believe that she may have wanted each child, that she could have acted irresponsibly with regards to her own mental health and the interests of her children? It sounds more like a desire to paint her as a victim, largely absolving her of responsibility, and transferring at least moral culpability to the husband.
Start of new material – my reply to Shaky Jake’s comments on my post:
First, re this couple’s plan. It seems plain that having child after child, and home schooling them, was too much for this mother. It’s one thing to start out with a plan to have a very large family, with the children very closely spaced. I’m sure it’s not too unusual for young people to think, “I love children! I want lots! I want to devote my life to raising children.” But this way of life is surely not for everyone. If, after having four kids one right after the other, you realize it’s not for you, the thing to do is call a halt, and start using contraception. I would say that a postpartum depression severe enough to cause two suicide attempts is a good indication that it’s time to rethink your life plan. (One of her brothers was quoted today - 06/30/01 - on CNN as having said she tried twice to kill herself.)
Second, re their decision to have a 5th child. It’s my belief that a severely depressed person is just not capable of making good decisions or of standing up to anyone. Basically, they don’t make decisions at all. They just try to get through the day. Getting out of bed, getting dressed, eating something, breathing in and out – just doing these sorts of things takes enormous effort. Making plans? Thinking ahead? Making decisions? Changing a course of action on which one has already embarked? Forget it; it’s not going to happen. If the spouse, parent, friend, or whatever of the depressed person wants them to do something, they’ll probably just do it, whatever it is. “Huh? Oh, yeah, okay. Whatever” is the most likely response to anything Or the depressed person may at first say “no” to just about everything, from going to the movies to having another baby, but gives in and goes along whenever the other person is persistant about it. It’s easier to go along.