man, you have some real power trip issues with telling people what can or cannor be art…Get Over Your Self.
PS, Lovely football match today eh.
I do not think there was ever a poll done on the general public.
You can read through these cites and make up your own mind.
http://www.randm.net.au/BBPages/Vault.htm
http://www.150.theage.com.au/view_bestofarticle.asp?straction=update&inttype=1&intid=1167
I haven’t, actually, said anything about the Police Academy movies. I’m refering to your declaration that movies in general are not art. Stuff like The Maltese Falcon, Gone with the Wind, The Third Man, Rashomon, Psycho, or Lawrence of Arabia. None of that is art, in your view?
Incidentally, it would be much easier to follow your posts if you’d learn how quote tags work. Start each quote with:
[ quote ]
Only type it all one word, without the spaces between the word “quote” and the brackets. Remember to close each quote box with:
[ /quote ]
Again, leaving out the space. To attribute a quote, type:
[ quote=Some Dude’s Name ]
If you’d do that when you’re replying to a post, it’d make life much easier for the rest of us. Thanks!
I do not buy CDs to help out struggling musicians. I buy them for my own enjoyment. I do not go to see Opera to help musicians. I go for my own enjoyment.
You do realise that classical music was incredibly popular in previous centuries. The reason orchestras need tax money is they do not market well. They would rather just satisfy the ‘elite’.
In New Zealand they have a free Classical music concert -“Symphony under the stars” that attracts up to 300,000 people in a city of about 1 million.If you ever get the chance to see it, is fantastic.They end with ‘1812 Overture’. The army fires real cannons, and there are amazing fireworks. Classical music can be incredibly popular. Why does it need government funding?
Why do you single me out? Miller is also saying what is art and what is not. He strangly thinks that movies are art. I do not.
Can you remotely defend that position? Seriously, I’ve been in dozens of these art/not art debates, but the idea that movies as a genre are not art is something I’ve never, ever heard before, and I cannot imagine what sort of reasoning backs that up. The idea that movies are an artform is not “strange.” It’s overwhelmingly the mainstream opinion, and has been for almost a century, now. Seriously, where on Earth do you get the idea that movies aren’t an artform? I’ve got a pretty liberal definition of “art,” but even the most rigid and limited definitions didn’t exclude films altogether.
God, it’s just “Me!Me!ME!” with you, isn’t it? You must be a joy in the sack…
My Bolding
Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!
Aha!
And just who the Holy Flying Kiwi do you think funds the Auckland Philharmonia? Who pays the salaries? Creative NZ and the City of Auckland, that’s who. Without government money, they wouldn’t be giving any free concerts, mate. HA! Thanks for the laugh, I needed that.
I am sure everyone else must buy CDs only for charity then.
As for the Symphony under the stars. Are you so thick to not see my point? My point is that classical music can be incredibly popular. It does not need funding if done well. If 300,000 people can go to a concert, then there must be a market for it.
I know they are funded by taxes. Thanking you for pointing out the bleeding obvious.
You are laughing at your own stupidity, yo-yo.
UC Berkeley is one of the finest universities in the US and offers this course on line for those who wish to have a better understanding of “The Art of Film.”
It’s a joke, son.
Talk about not seeing the point - Do you really think those 300 000 would all go if they had to pay? I mean, really? I can’t believe you’re using attendance at a free concert to point out that there’s a “market” for anything. All you prove is that people like Classical music, not that they’re willing to pay for it. The two are clearly not equivalent, and it’s the latter point that’s important, and that you still have to show.
I’m still laughing.
Classical music (er, my fingers are itching to get into the whole Classical refers to a particular period not the entire canon of Western music prior to the twentieth century but shit, that’s just too pedantic) was never self-supporting in terms of being paid for by its audience rather than sponsored by large bodies (government, church, wealthy families) even when it was the popular music of the day. We’re back around to patronage. Hell, opera was used to show how much cash you could fling about on the arts.
I don’t think that you can prove there’s a market for something by providing it for free. All that demonstrates is that 300,000 people will show up to listen to music on a warm evening, provided that they don’t have to pay for it. Those same people will also show up for fireworks or flea markets.
Well, they are funded by the government, but by my sums it’s around 50% by “The Tax On The Probability-Challenged”, as I like to think of the lottery.
Of course, that lottery money would be better spent building houses for all those Kiwis left homeless by hurrica…
…what?
See these arent valid representations of a publics opinion on this work of art…its two guys writing articles…The first even defends the art a great deal…
I don’t know why your giving some holier then thou bullshit on classical music to a Classical Musician.
Orchestras do everything in their power to try to cater to the public. That’s the reason Pops concert series exists, or your symphony under the stars. You think the reason people go to that concert is for the music, hell no, one…its FREE, two…It allows mommy and daddy to plan a nice family event and go see a real live concert with the kiddes with… 3. WOWIE real cannons… its like the perfect family event. There is a serious lack of education of this type of music in society today. but does that mean we should put this music away because its not the particular fashion? Just because we don’t study artists such as Davinci anymore do we pack up poor ol Mona Lisa? Is it still up in the Louvre to satisfy the elite?
I mean look at the Toronto Symphony Orchestra TSO Site they are going over the top with programs like the the TSO soundcheck, which offer special ticket pieces to those in the age bracket of 15-30, organize concert parties. Christ they even have a form so the youngins (and some oldies) can gab about the orchestra…all this in an attempt to appeal to the young generation…You really think they Cater to the elite? What do you want them to do, be a four piece band and play cover songs of Seeger and the Eagles all night?
It can’t deteriorate to that, this is an important art form that needs to exist…and right now without the government dollar won’t
PS Also on the site there’s an article about a 5m dollar donation given to the orchestra from a long time subscriber…if there were more like that, granted that particular orchestra could indeed survive…but that single donation was the biggest sum of money the orchestra has received to date.
no, he is saying what art is, and thats fine, because anything can be art…anything can be music…its when you say something is not art that you get into trouble…nothing gives us that authority.
Actually, he’s laughing at your stupidity. As well he should.
And who is this “elite” you speak of? Christ, someone likes something you don’t understand, and suddenly they’re some ivory tower snobs?
Oh, and the 1812 Overture is not the epitome of music. It’s the Oops, I Did It Again of the classical world. It’s lowest common denominator music. It’s played to bring in people who would otherwise never listen to a violin or a cannon.
This is perhaps the wisest thing yet said in this thread. Perhaps on the whole of the SDMB. Maybe even on the whole 'Net.
You win. Pick up your prize on the way out. You have your choice of Velvet Elvis or Dogs Playing Poker.
Of course, having said something so intelligent, expect to be dismissed as an elitist.
Well, I’m late to the thread, but as someone that agrees in some measure with the OP, I felt I’d chime in.
First off, I’d like to concede 2 things:
- I believe that art in the public sphere is a good thing, whether publicly or privately financed
- currently art funding is a minuscule part of any budget, and really doesn’t deserve the vitriol it receives.
- I will confess that my art education definitely skews toward Medieval/Renaissance, though I have a cursory knowledge of the modern/post-modern movements.
I think the hostility to modern and post-modern art (and by extension, its funding by government) stems from the departure from realistic representation, as had been discussed earlier in the thread. Traditionally, there has been somewhat objective standard re: the worth of a piece; those standards seem to have gone away- indeed, some say that we are beyond those now due to technical advances.
I look at classical art, and see things that I know that I could not do myself. The exact representation of the human form, natural scenes, etc. with nothing more than hand tools, using stone or canvas as a palate, is breathtaking.
I always have the nagging feeling that newer art is a joke being played on the audience; since skills mastery is no longer an issue, it’s just a matter of how compelling a back-story the artist can tell. I’m too much of a cynic to not see that this allows for more bullshit artistry than anything else. And who’s to say if the artist is sincere? In any case, I think this feeling underlines a lot of the hostility here. Da Vinci’s art does not depend on his sincerity, or any ‘message’ to prop it up. It is what it is. For public sculptures, either give me technically realistic representations in media requiring some sort of technical mastery, or, if the abstract is what is needed for the space, why not do something that is physically challenging (balancing, stacking, interlocking, etc.) in the medium? Like most folks, I want to feel as though what i paid for (through taxes or otherwise) required some work to make or think up. I absolutely despise art that appears to be crap looking for a purpose rather than a purpose seeking an out.
I know what you mean. Just the other day I was mugged by a bronze sculpture. Last week I was followed home by a gang of ruffian collages. And cubists raped my goldfish.
:rolleyes:
It’s taking longer than we thought.