Thanks for the quote, Pepperlandgirl. Illyria is one of these “old ones” of which Giles is speaking, right?
Also, Miller, I like your mindwipe speculation. It would be a good idea to have Illyria have access to those memories and to start asking quesitons. It could be like the Ben/Glory thing in Buffy. Once Spike realized it, and started telling the Scoobies, they didn’t get it, then the got it, but were confused by it, and eventually, they understood…kind of like their minds had to work it out. The mindwipe memories could be very similar to that.
I always figured that there were little bottles in that room that Wes and Fred were in in Life of the Party (where they found Lorne’s sleep) that had “Wes’s Connor Memories”, “Fred’s Connor Memories”, etc… written on them, but I like your idea better.
Thank you too, pepperlandgirl. But see, it doesn’t say anything about humans driving the demons out, it just says that “in time they lost their purchase on this reality. The way was made for mortal animals, for, for man.” It could just as well have been half-breed demons that drove the others out, or an army of angels, or that the power of the old ones began to fade with time and they had to go into hibernation.
I also note that the mythology contradicts itself, since Giles says that the last pure demon was the one who made the first vampire, but Illyria remembers vamps being around in her time. Of course, Giles and his books could be wrong, but I think I’ll just chalk this up as Whedon using his writer’s prerogative to reinterpret his universe any way he pleases. Which I don’t mind, since too much concern with continuity leads to Trekkiedom.
Also, did I spell Illyria’s name right? If I did, then that means ancient Troy was named after the demon, and also ancient Albania (the Albanians claim they’re Illyrians, anyway).
You are definately on to something here. Except I don’t think they actually let Connor have a “normal life.” I’m thinking that what Angel saw at the end of season 4 was an illusion. Someone mentioned in an earlier Angel thread that the thing in the basement of W&H might be Connor. I like that idea better. It’s more evil and fits them better. Might have been Lilah’s last shot at Angel before she went to hell (or wherever you go if W&H own your soul).
Heh, I wasn’t quoting Giles to prove me right, I was just bringing to the discussion what canon says. But I don’t think Joss is contradicting himself at all. Like Miller pointed out, she could have just been remembering the um…Turok-Han. They’re vampires, but obviously, a pure breed. Giles could have meant the last pure vampire bit a human and became the vampires we would recognize today.
My thoughts exactly. The FG clearly remembers some events; Cordy apologized to Wes for Lilah’s death, for example. Wes probably remembers it happening in a slightly different context.
That was a Klaynach demon, a form used by the SP to manifest itself in our dimension. Angel most likely didn’t kill the Partner at all, he just sent it back to where it came from. Mesektet, the creepy little girl in the white room, is dead. She was the conduit and not an actual senior partner. She was replaced by the big cat. As for the senior partners, we’ve only ever heard of one refered to by name. A Mr. Suvarta gave Lilah the tip on office furniture that secured her a promotion to head of Special Projects in “Deep Down.”
OT: The Home Office is not on earth! That big speech that Holland gave to Angel was a giant pack of lies and Angel bought every bit of it and almost turned evil! It was the best fast one W&H ever pulled and no one ever gives them any credit for it.
This was also strongly implied in the S3 episode where teenaged Connor first appears. I think Fred even says something to the effect that Connor must think of Earth as a hell dimension because he has no idea WTF is going on in the crazy streets of LA.
I’ve been doing the dance of joy about no SMG since yesterday.
I thought some people might be interested in this…
Also, the cartoon is being shopped around again. They have 12 episodes done at this point, with ASH, AH, and NB providing voices. From what i understand, it’s set in S1 and S2 of BtVS and covers some of the more wacky moments from the hs years.