Annoying messianic neighbor

A specific (and prominent) person is Bob Jones III, recent president of Bob Jones University in South Carolina.

Jones has referred to Catholicism as “the religion of the anti-Christ and a Satanic system” and called Mormonism and Catholicism "cults which call themselves Christian."Bob Jones III - Wikipedia

He also said that liberals despise Christ.

The same passage is recited in Lutheran churches. Christ is viewed as transcendant, being one with God from the beginning. They are not separate Gods. (See John 1.)

Sure. Any of them. My only point is that what you call someone doesn’t trump what they call themselves. There is controversy because there is disagreement. All I’m asking (and all I’ve ever asked from you in Great Debates) is that you qualify the things you say with true qualifiers. There’s a difference between “No Jew can accept Christ” and “Most Jewish scholars do not recognize Messianic Jews as Jews.”

Look at what you posted:

Messianic Judaism is a strain of evangelical Christianity. It’s not part of Judaism at all, it’s a tactic for converting Jews to Christianity.

No qualifiers. No references. Nothing but categorical declarations.

He’s not doing that. I also assure you that Jesus is not as important to everyone as he seems to be to you. In all the years I went to Hebrew School and to shul every Saturday, Jesus did not come up - neither did any of the other people who claimed they were the Messiah and came to a bad end.

I don’t think I can ever get across to you how totally irrelevant Jesus was and is to me. That is not saying anyone is right and anyone is wrong, but just a statement of personal experience.

The problem that I had with your analogy it was not a contradiction. Respecting Jesus as a secular figure does not contradict atheism. Eating meat does contradict vegetarianism, and wiorshipping Jesus does contradict Jewish theology.

Words have definitions. Calling yourself an umbrella does not make you an umbrella and calling yourself a Jew does not make you Jewish.

He’s not a Jewish rabbi. He’s a christian minister.

No, you linked to religious Christians who are factually wrong.

I didn’t say Messianics were started by Baptists, Lib, I said Jews for Jesus was. They are two different groups, and Leopold Cohn stopped being an orthodox Rabbi as soon as he converted to Christianity.

And you are wrong. There IS a single essential Jewish theology which is common to every denomination you mentioned. The understanding of what God is and is not is exactly the same. There is no disagreement in Judaism about whether Jesus could have been God. Full stop.

I’m here to fight ignorance. I am posting factually correct information. You have a fundmental misunderstanding of the conflict between Jews and Messianics. If you’re not willing to take the correction, that’s no skin off my nose, but I’m posting them anyway for the record and for anyone else who may be interested in the facts.

Try to frame it as what “I call them” is baloney. They either fit a definition (not MY definition, THE definition) or they don’t. Words don’t change meanings by self-identification.

All that stuff is pure, objective fact, not opinion. There isn’t any disagreement or controversy within Judaism.

It’s not “most Jewish scholars” who say that the worship of Christ (or any other Messiah) is incompatible with religious Judaism, it’s ALL Jewish denominations, without exception, and it’s the state of Israel itself.

I’m watching this with great interest. The OP asks how to handle a pushy neigher so as not to have an angry neighbor and it turns into a rather heated debate on the nature of Judaism, Messaianic Jews and on and on.

Do you suppose if religion didn’t exist peace would break out?

The OP is kinda looking for informed opinions, and since there is NO one factual answer here, let’s move this to IMHO.

samclem GQ moderator

From the first response to the OP:

The saddest thing about the internet is how often that it is just a snake eating its own tail.

Oh sure, I mean nothing bad ever happened in the Soviet Union, China, or Cambodia.

Liberal, how do you reconcile your stance in this thread with your stance in this thread? Particularly here.

Let me reconcile it for you: Take it elsewhere.
No more hijacking this thread, o.k.?

OK, but every single post on this page is devoted to the “Are messianic Jews Christians” hijack.

So why don’t y’all start a new thread in Great Debates titled maybe, “Are Messianic Jews Christians?”, so the others who know how to stay on topic can do so?

Depends upon the theology. Housecats have no trouble with the “I am God.” idea.

And they didn’t do too badly in Egypt. A timely point, what with Passover coming up. :slight_smile:
And “Messianic Jews” are not Jews, they are Christians, by the definition of Christians as someone who believes Jesus to be divine. The Messiah will bring peace on earth, and rebuild the Temple. Last time I checked that had not happened 2,000 years ago.