Another consumer advice thread: Seeking well-engineered laptop

In My Humble Opinion
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The Nutshell: I’m looking for a really solid laptop. I figure (perhaps wrongly?) that the “solidness” and reliability is a function of how well-engineered the thing is.

The Background: I’m in law school, and my fellow law-school dopers will confirm that these days, you pretty much need a laptop. My current model might as well be sewn to me. I cannot think of a time that I have been more than 50 feet from it in the last four months.

It’s a cheap-o flimsy Gateway. The reason it’s a cheap-o flimsy Gateway is because it was supposed to be my “backup computer” that I used only for taking notes in class. So I bought the cheapest computer I could find. (It was $375, plus a $50 memory upgrade I installed myself.) However, very early in the semester, my “main” computer died. So my crappy backup computer has been my main computer. This makes me very nervous. The computer has to survive a lot of nasty shocks and jolts. It gets tossed in my bag and hauled around every day. I take notes on it for 8-10 hours a day, and then bring it home and goof off on it in the evenings. I can say without exaggeration that this computer is in use at least ten hours a day. Maybe four-a-day on weekends.

My school requires a windows laptop for exams. (Actually, there’s an option to hand-write them, but the only people who do this are the ones who can write 60wpm legibly. Not I.) I’m thinking of saving this Gateway exclusively for exams and getting a more serious computer for day-to day use. I want something that’ll survive two-and-a-half more years of very heavy abuse.

The Question: Is there a manufacturer or line of products with an excellent track record on failure rates? My number one requirement in a laptop is ability to take abuse without crapping out on me. Number two is a non-astronomical price tag. I know these things are somewhat mutually exclusive, but hopefully that can be mitigated by some of the things I don’t need:
-I’m not a gamer. I don’t need a high-resolution screen or a powerful graphics card.
-I’m not a media junkie. I don’t have a music or movie collection. A 10gb harddrive would be more than enough. (And it looks like it’s even hard to find a new machine with that little storage…)

I’ve been told that all the PC manufacturers nowadays are using basically the same components, and the only real difference is packaging. That is, if you bust open an IBM and a Dell, you’ll find the same Toshiba motherboard in each, the same Medion RAM, the same Unisys power supply, etc.. So the individual parts of each laptop are going to have the same reliability factor. It’s just a matter of how the computer manufacturer puts the components together. Is this true? Is there, IYHO, really no difference between any of the PC manufacturers? Is a Compaq as good as an HP as good as an IBM as good as a Gateway, etc.?

I’ve also been thinking about getting a mac. Everyone who has one sings their praises, but it’s hard to cut through the fanboy cult and get a straight answer: are they, IYHO, really more solidly built than PCs in general? I’ve looked at macs online, and the upcharge for maxing out the memory is ludicrous. Can I buy it seperately and install it myself to save $400, or is it like the iPod battery where they don’t let you change it yourself? (Note - I’m not asking whether macs are subjectively better than PCs. That’s a different thread. I’m just asking what’s the most solidly built laptop.)

I’ve seen military-grade laptops. The kind that are bullet-proof and will survive a nuclear holocaust. But those are pretty expensive. I’m looking to stay under $1200, and those bad boys seem to start in the $3k+ range. Plus, they’re built like cinderblocks, so they weigh as much as cinderblocks. Anyone used one of those?

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As a law student myself, I sympathize with the hunt for the perfect sidekick. Here’s my take: your price limit and your requirements are fundamentally incompatible. Assuming we’re talking about a new laptop, I don’t think you can get anything more reliable than a Dell for under $1200. In my experience Gateway, Compaq, and Dell are of similar reliability.

If you decide to spend more, my only advice is against getting a Thinkpad. I have a Lenovo Thinkpad (the company that bought out IBM’s Thinkpad line). It has a very good reputation for longevity. And while I have found it to be far superior to Dell, it’s no great shakes. Quality has gone downhill a bit in the changeover. The people that I know in law school that have had the least problems are Vaio owners. YMMV.

One final consideration: macs can now run Windows natively on their intel chips. Softest, Examsoft, and Secureexam will all run on them. Obviously this depends on your school regs, but if they require Windows and not specifically a non-mac, then you could consider a mac for both exams and home. In my experience, macs are more reliable than PCs precisely because they are less customizable. The keyboard and case engineering is also better than Dell et al.

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I’ll NOT turn this into a fanboi-mac-fest. I have a 1st Gen Core Duo MacBook Pro. Both fans have been replaced under warrantee. It’s HOT, but if you rest the edges on your thighs, you can use it on your lap (newer Core 2 Duo Macbook Pros don’t get as hot)

It’s the best laptop i’ve ever used. (previous experience includes dell’s, vaios, HP laptops, etc.) The aluminum outer shell makes it a very stout laptop that’s resistant to bending and war wounds. I’m certain PC laptops with largely metal shells (lenovo? Toshiba?) would be similar. My wife’s 17" HP Pavilion is not.

It was purchased by my office and I swore if I ever had to give it up, my first stop on the way home would be to the apple store. I would, however, buy the cheaper macbook. I don’t need the screen real estate, expansion slot, or separate video card. I would miss the lit keyboard (a feature hard to find on non-mac books), but it would not be worth the $400 premium of the MBP over the MB to me.

More expensive laptops have G-meters that assist in parking the harddisk if something nasty happens. (Mac book pro and IIRC the Lenovo thinkpad have this feature) if robustness is a criteria, auto-head parking might be a plus.

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For ruggedness, you might want to consider the Toughbook line by Panasonic. They do mil-grade, yes, but they have a “business rugged” line as well. It might blow out your budget, though; they start at about $2k.

And what Uninenetionally Blank said about Mac laptops (which will run Windows, by the way). (I have a second-revision MacBook Pro.)

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Maybe you can tell, but I’m dangerously close to getting a MacBook Pro. But even the cheapest one is out of my price range. I might just do it, though, if I can’t find anything IN my price range that’ll inspire as much confidence.

Is this true?

But don’t you lose the aluminium case? I looked at regular macbooks, but you lose one of the major selling points of the MBP: the outer shell.

Unfortunately, they require a non-mac. Even though Examsoft has a mac iteration, they don’t have the license for it. So they simply won’t let you bring a mac into the testing room, regardless of whether it runs Windows.

Sunspace - Yeah, those are the ones I meant. But since they start at the same price as the fancier macs, I might as well just go with the one that comes with a built-in cult.

And can anyone address my question about upgrading the memory yourself? Does that void the warranty?

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If you get a Mac, get third-party memory. Apple memory is about twice the price. It is user-replaceable on the MacBook Pro; the instructions are even in the user manual. All you need is a #00 Phillips screwdriver.

The MacBook Pro has two memory slots; on mine, both are filled with 1-gig memory modules. 2-gig modules are available, but when I bought my memory, the 1-gig modules were around $100 and the 2-gig modules were $300. Not cost-effective.

The current MacBook Pro, which Apple calls “Mid 2007”, will take two 2-gig memory modules for a total of 4 gigs. My machine will take the same modules, but my version of the hardware (which Apple calls “Late 2006”) can only see 3 gigs.

Link.

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My Fujitsu has performed very well for me.

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If you want bullet proof go with the Toughbook.
I use a Dell business laptop. A few bucks more, but you can get it with XP not Vista. You also get US based tech support not India.
Dell business level laptops aren’t bad at all. I have used them for years with extensive travel, and only had one failure in that time (screen failure about 5 years ago)

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Not all Toughbooks are heavy. My husband has the Panasonic toughbook Y4 and it’s about 3 pounds with 8 hours of battery life. Like in the commercial, he has spilled coffee/water on it and it works fine. It is a couple of years old so he’s upgrading to the Y7 which is just as light. The only downside is that it is expensive. I have the Sony TZ90 which is 2 pounds and is also made of a poly fibre casing like the toughbook it is light and ultraportable. Like the toughbook it comes with a dvd writer built in. Anyhow I’d recommend the Y4 or Y7 if you have the extra cash to fund your laptop quest.

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Yes, your friend is correct. There are only a few major laptop contract manufacturers who make assemble the machines. As you can see from the link, Quanta and Compal have a major market share. While it would seem that the machines would be pretty much identical, it depends upon how much the customer (HP, Toshiba) is involved in the design. You’d never think an Apple laptop and a Gateway laptop are the same, but it’s likely they were both built by Quanta.

I guess I’ll be the one to suggest HP. I’ve got a dv1000 series, one of their relatively cheap machines. It was about US$800, yet powerful enough to run photo editing software with fairly large images. It feels solid, too. It doesn’t flex if I try to bend it while it’s closed. Because it’s not huge and heavy, I’ve hauled it around the world, quite literally, not being extremely careful about bumping it over curbs, up steps, etc. while in its overstuffed wheely case. It’s also been hefted into the overhead bins of numerous airplanes, too, for international flights and bumped around the trunks of rental cars. I’ve had it over a year, leaving it on 24/7 many weeks, with no hardware problems. Damn, has it been that long?

Seeing that you’re on a budget, I’ll give you a hint with HP. With HP’s laptops (and the almost identical Compaq’s), you should be able to find a machine where you pay for the performance you want and no more. I got one with a less powerful processor and shared video RAM because I knew I wouldn’t see the difference in performance, yet got a large hard drive and fancy DVD burner because I knew I would use them. Different retailers/web sites will have slightly different configurations within HP/Compaq’s 4 or 5 main chassis, so be sure to check around. Pricing can get strange when you look across marketing channels. You should be able to find something relatively sturdy and powerful yet within your price range.

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Can I suggest an alternative: accept that it will break. So get the cheapest that serves your requirements. If it breaks, replace it with another cheap one.

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More than twice the price. I just bought a Macbook and got it with the default one gigabyte of memory and then installed four gigabytes of Kingston RAM I bought from Newegg for about $200 versus the $850 that Apple would have charged, had I ordered the system with four gig installed.

Wait, you can’t even bring a Macbook into the testing room, even if you boot it into Windows? That’s weird. And as far as the memory upgrade, I don’t believe doing it yourself will void the warranty. In fact, I have an Apple PDF document that explains how to add memory to the Macbook and it says, “Follow the instructions in this document carefully. Failure to follow these instructions could damage your equipment and void its warranty.” So presumably the warranty is only void if you screw up the system in the process of installing the memory (but then again, you’re the law student).

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I beat the ever living crap out of an iBook when I was in college (made out of the same white material they make the MacBooks out of now, I believe). I never did get a laptop case, it got shoved in my backpack among the books, or just carried in my arms. I tended to pick it up by the screen-- Macs have seriously sturdy metal hinges, unlike many cheaper PCs which are plastic. It was dropped on hardwood floors, kitchen tables, desks, a concrete sidewalk, and once slid down a flight of carpet-covered stairs. I’m horribly klutzy, and damaged my previous PC laptop twice by dropping. Other than some serious scratching from the concrete, the iBook was never damaged. My Boss has a regular MacBook and he also tends to beat it up.

Said iBook still works perfectly well, I just needed more power for job I do. Now I have a MacBook Pro. (People have had theirs run over by a car and still boot-- I believe Thinkpads have also survived being run over). I had it slide off the bed and hit the floor while running not long ago-- didn’t even crash.

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Given how much you use it, and how much risk of damage, might I suggest another route?

What’s really valuable on the machine is your data. You can buy another machine in a few hours; replacing your data, notes, etc. will take much longer.

So spend around $100 on an external hard drive with a USB connection. Make sure that it’s really easy & convenient to use, so that you will actually use it every night to backup your laptop. I’d even buy a slightly cheaper machine, if necessary, to reserve some money for such a backup device.