A pile of exception that account for a tiny percentage of asian americans is still an exception to the rule. But if it makes things clearer, when i say asian americans i am talking about the 97% not the 3%. tail wagging the dog indeed.
African immigrants make up a larger percentage of the black population than your examples. I could easily come up with a dozen ethnicites of black people that have higher educational achievement and income than the median white american and it wouldn’t undermine the more general statements about black people. Noone quibbles about the need for removing discrimination in education against blacks by pointing ot these tiny slivers of the black population for which some of these statement are not true. The quibbling only comes when we talk about asians.
Like the example made of the theory of Punctuated Equilibrium on how it modifies the general theory of evolution, some factors are there that do modify the CRT framework. And again, finding that one factor could be not as crucial, does not mean that the CRT framework should be dismissed.
Again, what counts more are the published science and law journals. That of course are for some reason harder to check (it is realy easier now in the internet era). Looks like it is easier to continue to rely on clueless right wing sources of information.
I don’t know who you think you are arguing with here. No one said any such thing, and it has no relevance to the post you replied to. Why don’t you try addressing what other people are actually saying?
That came from you thinking that you were correct about interest-convergence (it still needs more evidence that just one paper to dismiss it)
So it was then why the metaphor of Punctuated Equilibrium was mentioned regarding evolution, it is an example of how things in science take place. That even if one could dismiss a factor like interest convergence, it does not lead one to dismiss CRT altogether.
That’s literally what I say when I say, "If you’re analyzing student success without bringing in the historical context, if you’re just like, “THIS GROUP HAS A BETTER CULTURE,” I’m gonna suspect you have a reason for the elision.
Does no one on this forum have any reading comprehension? I never even gave an opinion on interest convergence! I said I wanted to see more evidence, and wondered if CRT was the kind of theory that cannot be refuted because it can accommodate/explain away any contradictory evidence. I was pleased to see the paper because it confirmed that these were reasonable and relevant questions to ask, not because it gave any particular answer.
And yet much earlier in the thread you posted this:
That certainly didn’t suggest to me that you are open to a nuanced view where several factors can influence success. In fact, it strongly suggests that you are unwilling to consider any factors other than racism.
It’s a very high hill to climb != untrue. If you want to play gotcha, knock yourself out, but at least try to represent what you’re gotcha-ing about accurately.
I didn’t say ‘untrue’ either. It’s not a gotcha to point out that your claimed attitude now does not appear to match your earlier post. If you really believe multiple factors play a role, why would it be such a high hill to climb to convince you of one of them?
Perhaps what these exceptions show is that success does not really correlate with socially constructed racial groups, but rather with ethnic groups who share a history and culture, and arrived in the US at different times via different routes.
Yes you did. You chose them to make your argument.
Ones that are actually relevant for the argument you are trying to make.
So you’re conflating various things I’ve said in order to demand that I provide verbatim evidence of something I didn’t claim, and then demanding that if I can’t do that I must concede the point I actually made?
If you’re unable to make your case without this sort of rhetorical chicanery, you might as well just admit that the type of racism I’m talking about does exist. Of course, doing so would undermine your entire agenda.
And the Orwellian justifications for banning the teaching of CRT and anything that even smells like it continues. Once again, conservative politicians are only showing that specially minorities that are in high positions in education should be banned from watching the watchmen, and it is not the TV show.
As I said before, most conservative Republicans are also ignorant of the Streisand effect, and that trying to scare or smear educators is in reality not a good idea.
David E. DeMatthews is an associate professor in the College of Education at the University of Texas at Austin.
Terri N. Watson is an associate professor in the Department of Leadership and Human Development at the City College of New York
As a white man who was a school administrator and now researches and teaches aspiring principals, I—David—have seen how critical race theory can provide educators with a new lens for seeing their schools and rethinking their practices. I wish I had understood the full value of critical race theory when I was a school administrator in a racially segregated middle school in the District of Columbia.
As a Black woman who understands the effects of racism in schools, I—Terri—know we must see the whole child, including the challenges those children face, based on the color of their skin. To deny their truth is to miss the bigger picture and our roles as educators.
If the Trump administration truly seeks a more just nation, it will repeal its order and encourage federal agencies and public schools to embrace critical race theory.
That was for the recent past, as for what is going on in the states:
But even more disturbing is DeSantis’ obsession with denying the facts and attempting to rewrite history using the public schools. It is a sobering strategy that, if implemented, would result in violating the tenet of education: teaching the truth. Very telling is who DeSantis has engaged in helping with curriculum – Betsy DeVos, a sworn enemy of public schools. The project represents history denial and the expenditure of dwindling state dollars to create a small group spreading misinformation. We need to stand together as we have in the past and call out the governor’s apparent attempt to weaponize race and sanitize our history.
I’m not one to mince words. This policy is a dangerous attempt to continue a racist and divisive mantra in Florida public schools. It is clear that people want our democracy to be inclusive for all. That is what defines it. Racism comes in many forms, and it is the most egregious form of hate.
Rather than divide us, I call on the governor to work with us to move Florida forward. We must continue to learn from the past, not deny it.
Adora Obi Nweze serves as president of the NAACP Florida State Conference. She spent decades as a classroom teacher and administrator in Florida’s public schools.
I was comparing the present (the last couple of years) to the past, I don’t know why you would think I would measure changes in racism over a 2 or 3 year period in a discussion like this. I was certainly not saying that there wasn’t a blip in racism during the trump administration.
I think you misread my post.
I was presenting the arguments of “fairly right wing commentators” to show that even THEY don’t point to innate intellectual differences anymore.
They point to these other things and then I go on to explain that their current explanation still do not adequately explain the racial gap because if things like out of wedlock birthrate explained everything, then the white asian gap would be comparable to the white black gap but it’s not. Something is pushing down blacks or asians or both (or elevating whites). I suspect we both agree on what this “something” is.
I think I have been pretty consistent that the differences between asians and everyone else is how much emphasis asian americans place on education and academic effort. I’ve linked a peer reviewed study that say that the asian academic gap is largely the result of a gap in effort. And this focus on education does not come without tradeoffs. For example, the suicide rate among asian teenagers is disproportionately high.
You got anything more specific than that? I mean if academic effort then what is?
I thought claimed that the ‘usual “alternative explanation” offered up is simply that black people really are intellectually inferior’ I asked for examples and you provided none.
I provided what I think is the more common explanation presented by the actual right wing, which is related to things like illegitimacy, dropout rates, etc. The mainstream right wing does not offer up innate intellectual differences as the reason for racial achievement gap anymore. That is why I asked for a recent cite presenting the “alternative explanation” of innate intellectual inferiority.
So I think I am using you for evidence of the exact claim you made. I am asking for recent cites to people using what you think is the ‘usual “alternative explanation”’
I do not disagree that racism exists but the explanation you present is not one that is presented by the right wing these days.
Oh they are not trying to be old fashion racists in the open, but try to look closely at the alleged few bad apples, and you see who they defend still.
Now, no GOP to see there, huh? But even if we could pretend that no Republicans were there, the reality is that they are doing their damnest to avoid looking at what they allowed to grow for years among them.