Another Ebay question: Feedback

In My Humble Opinion
21

Yea…the main problem with the feedback system is this desire/need to have squeaky clean feedback.

In normal commerce, if I found out that a company had 95% satisfaction, I wouldn’t hesitate using them. (say I was looking for a company to finish my basement or retar driveway). I know there are asshats out there…I account for it.

However, sellers want squeaky clean feedback…and for good reason because a large number of people would see a seller having 10,000 sales with 3 negative feedbacks and go “GOSH…I BETTER NOT USE HIM”.

22

Well, if the buyer is less than satisfied, I’d really appreciate the opportunity to make them satisfied before it gets to the point of feedback. However, let’s say for a moment that the buyer doesn’t give me that opportunity, just leaves negative feedback. Maybe the makeup she ordered wasn’t the shade she was expecting. I could still leave positive feedback that said something like “Prompt payment; sorry I was not given opportunity to resolve problem”, and I would do that.

I will reiterate: I do not insist the buyer leave feedback first. That really would be feedback extortion, and anyway, somebody has to leave the first feedback. If the customer emails me and says something like “Received the item, thanks” then I’ll go leave the feedback first. If the customer emails me and says “I received the item, but the catch on the compact is broken”, then I will resolve the issue prior to either of us leaving feedback (that really happened, btw).

If I wait to know they received the item, then I can comment not only on prompt payment, but that there were good communications, whatever.

In fact, the example put forth in the OP, unless she leaves me negative feedback just to be pissy because I had to nag her about payment, I’ll probably put something like “Some payment delay problems, but transaction was successful” under positive feedback.

Absolutely true, although I don’t do that, I know many do. I only look at negative feedbacks as a deterrent if it seems to be a repeated problem, or if the person is new to eBay and already amassing bad feedback. If someone has 1,000 feedbacks, and three are negative, I just figure they got hold of some buyer/seller with their panties in a bunch.

23

[QUOTE=Queuing]
I think this is just crap. IMO if the buyer pays within 48 hours they have done their part of their bargain. All they are required to do is pay the amount promised in the way they promised to do so. This should garner immediate positive feedback from the seller. Anything else is, IMO, feedback hostage.
[/QUOTE]

I disagree. Feedback is supposed to reflect the whole transaction - which isn’t complete at the point where the buyer has paid promptly. If I leave feedback at payment, then all I can comment on is payment. If I wait until the transaction is complete, I can comment on the whole transaction - including stuff like communication, patience, and of course any problems which may or may not have been resolvable. It’s just inappropriate to leave feedback until everything is done.

24

[QUOTE=Queuing]
I think this is just crap. IMO if the buyer pays within 48 hours they have done their part of their bargain. All they are required to do is pay the amount promised in the way they promised to do so. This should garner immediate positive feedback from the seller. Anything else is, IMO, feedback hostage.
[/QUOTE]

I disagree. There is more to the transaction on the buyer’s part than simply paying the money. The buyer must be reasonable in his expectations. I have had buyers who paid promptly, but then complain that the package took too long (4 days from Florida to California is not too long for standard shipping), that it was damaged when it arrived (and they didn’t pay for insurance, and I don’t control UPS), and in other situations simply demand that I include free perks that were never part of the deal.

When this happens, the transaction is not “positive” and they are not a “good buyer”.

In a way, the whole system is set up so that the buyer and the seller hold each other hostage for feedback. It’s not fair, but it is equally not fair to leave positive feedback to a buyer when payment is received only to get extorted for return feedback…

25

I have purchased a number of items on eBay over the years. All of my purchases went smoothly, and I was usually careful to give prompt, positive feedback as soon as I received my purchase. There was one time when I forgot because of a personal issue that distracted me, and I seem to recall the seller sent me a very polite message reminding me to give feedback, and mentioning that he had already given me a positive feedback; I responded with an apology, explaining the reason for not posting, and immediately posted my positive feedback.

I was never that concerned about what sort of feedback I got as a buyer until I started considering trying to sell and noticed that it was recommended that it helped first-time sellers if they had positive buyer feedback. I just posted some DVDs, so I guess I’ll find out if thats true.

26

I consider feedback part of the whole ebay handshaking process:
Bidder pays seller
Seller ships item
Bidder leaves feedback
Seller leaves feedback
And another transaction comes to a happy end.

27

Negative feedback hurts sellers more than buyers. Protect your feedback by not leaving them any feedback at all and quietly adding them to your blocked bidders list.

28

[QUOTE=norinew]
Almost two weeks ago, one of my eBay auctions sold. I sent out an invoice almost immediately, as I always do when payment isn’t made automatically. I received no payment and got no response. Five days later, I sent the customer an email, asking if she had by chance mailed a check or money order, because I hadn’t received payment yet. I got no response. Finally, yesterday, 11 days after the auction ended, I sent another email, saying that if payment was not received by the end of the week, I would report it as an unpaid auction.

She paypal’d the money today. Should I mention this delay (and lack of communication) in payment when I leave her feedback?
[/QUOTE]

No. Leave no FB at all. She did pay, and no use starting trouble.

But the “FB 1st” sellers are just plain wrong. The buyer pays 1st, thus the seller should leave FB 1st. OK, if that doesn’t convince you- by waiting for the buyer to leave FB 1st, sometimes you wait forever. A high FB rating means $$ in the pocket for a seller but for the buyer? Not so much. You want to leave FB super fast and positive, so that the buyer will leave you Pos FB- that means extra sales. Finally, some of us buyers are wise to the whole “witholding Fb crap” and I wwill never buy a second time from a Feedback witholding buyer. In fact, sometimes, if there are several sellers with the same item and price, I’ll pick the one who leaves fast FB 1st.

So, leaving FB last costs you money. It’s the mark of a disgruntled bad-attitude eBay seller- or someone who has listened to a “disgruntled bad-attitude eBay seller”.

That being said- sure, check the buyer out first. If he is a complete newb or leaves bad FB, then don’t leave FB 1st.

There is one reason to with-hold FB- so you can retaliate. But canny eBay buyers see that on your record. If you have a Neg from some Newb with a rating on 3, no one gives a shit. But if someone with a decent rating has NEGed you and the complaint sounds reasonable (even if it isn’t) then leaving retalitory FB is just like giving yourself another NEG. Even worse.

Yeah, I know- there are all sorts of things that can happen after a seller gets the $$. Big deal. They are rare, *and you still have the fucking money.

  • There are things that a seller can do that can make the deal go south, even after completed. If everyone waits until they are 100% sure nothing is going to go wrong, no one gets FB. And, lack of FB costs sellers $$. It doesn’t hurt the buyers at all.

All of eBay is based upon trust, and the buyer shows trust in the seller by sending payment first. The seller needs to show some trust too.

29

[QUOTE=DrDeth]
There is one reason to with-hold FB- so you can retaliate.
[/QUOTE]
This is incorrect. Some of the other reasons are up there in black and white in this thread.

30

[QUOTE=DrDeth]
No. Leave no FB at all. She did pay, and no use starting trouble.

But the “FB 1st” sellers are just plain wrong. The buyer pays 1st, thus the seller should leave FB 1st. OK, if that doesn’t convince you- by waiting for the buyer to leave FB 1st, sometimes you wait forever. A high FB rating means $$ in the pocket for a seller but for the buyer? Not so much. You want to leave FB super fast and positive, so that the buyer will leave you Pos FB- that means extra sales. Finally, some of us buyers are wise to the whole “witholding Fb crap” and I wwill never buy a second time from a Feedback witholding buyer. In fact, sometimes, if there are several sellers with the same item and price, I’ll pick the one who leaves fast FB 1st.

So, leaving FB last costs you money. It’s the mark of a disgruntled bad-attitude eBay seller- or someone who has listened to a “disgruntled bad-attitude eBay seller”.

That being said- sure, check the buyer out first. If he is a complete newb or leaves bad FB, then don’t leave FB 1st.

There is one reason to with-hold FB- so you can retaliate. But canny eBay buyers see that on your record. If you have a Neg from some Newb with a rating on 3, no one gives a shit. But if someone with a decent rating has NEGed you and the complaint sounds reasonable (even if it isn’t) then leaving retalitory FB is just like giving yourself another NEG. Even worse.

Yeah, I know- there are all sorts of things that can happen after a seller gets the $$. Big deal. They are rare, *and you still have the fucking money.

  • There are things that a seller can do that can make the deal go south, even after completed. If everyone waits until they are 100% sure nothing is going to go wrong, no one gets FB. And, lack of FB costs sellers $$. It doesn’t hurt the buyers at all.

All of eBay is based upon trust, and the buyer shows trust in the seller by sending payment first. The seller needs to show some trust too.
[/QUOTE]

Ugh, there must be a squillion threads on the ebay message boards about this. I’ll summarise their general consensus:

The transaction isn’t over until the buyer has received their item and indicates their satisfaction by leaving feedback.

Of course, I’ve been known to ask buyers to ingest poison while I watch so maybe I’m not the voice of reason here.

31

[QUOTE=bathsheba]
Ugh, there must be a squillion threads on the ebay message boards about this. I’ll summarise their general consensus:

The transaction isn’t over until the buyer has received their item and indicates their satisfaction by leaving feedback.
[/QUOTE]

I agree, except that the graped part isn’t the only way they can indicate their satisfaction, therefore there’s no ‘hostage-taking’.

And of course, if they’re not satisfied, it means the transaction isn’t over yet.

32

True.

And I missed the edit window.

I never asked a buyer to ingest poison. I asked some-one who bid and didn’t pay and was horribly dodgy and rude to ingest poison, not a buyer.

33

[QUOTE=Autumn Almanac]
A nonresponsive buyer who waits 11 days to make payment, and who only finally made it after you threatened to report them, does not deserve a positive, IMHO, though I may be kind of a stickler judging by some of the other responses here. Personally I would wait until they leave their feedback for you, then leave them a neutral. That’s what neutral is for: a transaction that finished satisfactorily but had a few bumps along the way.
[/QUOTE]

I agree. If there was some legitimate reason it took her so long, she should have been communicating with you at the very least. I don’t know if I’d leave negative feedback, as others have mentioned she can then leave retaliatory negative feedback.

You might be better off just leaving none at all.

34

[QUOTE=Queuing]
The whole system is BS IMO.
[/QUOTE]

As a buyer, I completely disagree. The feedback rating is an effective way to see how “safe” one is in purchasing from a specific seller.

A small percentage of negative feedbacks won’t put me off (especially if they seem retaliatory) , but if the ones that are there are from several different buyers complaining about similar issues (like super slow shipping, or items not working upon being received) that’s a great clue to either NOT buy from this ebayer, or to at least not buy anything very expensive from them.

And I’m sure the big sellers feel the same way. If they sell their item, and then see from the feedback ratings that the winning bidder has several comments (even if their overall rating is fairly high), that the buyer is slow in payment and is non-responsive to communication, he’s at least forewarned that he may have to do a lot of follow up and possibly re-list the item.

I’ve won a couple of items because the winning bidder didn’t pan out and I was offered the item on the (what do they call it, second chance?). I don’t know if that’s only offered to the runner-up or what though. :smiley:

35

[QUOTE=OtakuLoki]
Well, consider the situation that SomeUserName described. As a seller, I’d be a bit annoyed that he chose to use negative feedback to deal with what I suspect was a Post Oriface screw up. (Don’t get me started about some of the corner cases I’ve had with the Post Oriface.) But it seems to me that would be a legitimate complaint. Not a case of complete asshattery.

But I’ve also given S&H refunds when the Post Oriface screws me over. It’s a hazard of the business IMNSHO, and I’ve never had anyone insist on negative feedback once I’ve done that.

If he took the S&H refund, and still gave negative feedback, I’d probably leave negative feedback. If he left the negative feedback before I had a chance to offer, he’d still probably get the positive feedback.

He’s got a legit gripe. And “my” poor communications would make it even harder for me to stay on a high horse.

The problem I have is the assumption that all people on eBay are reasonable. Not all are. Most, the vast majority are. But not all.
[/QUOTE]

Well in my case I did try and communicate three separate times over a month with no response. I am a reasonable person. If they had responded in any way with an explanation or some type of apology that there was a shipping delay I would have never left them negative since I did eventually receive my item. If they had offered a shipping refund I would have never left them negative in fact I probably would have left positive.

The reason I left negative is this was a major seller. They had a ton of positive feedback but plenty of negative as well and all the negative feedback that I read was about shipping delays. I wanted to warn people that there is a possibility of a delay.

In my case it was a Christmas present and I am glad I ordered it 6 weeks before. If I had ordered it only three weeks before it would have been late. Not tragic by any means but that is not the point.

As a shopper on Ebay I take things like that into consideration. If I want something now or very soon I will go to a different seller that has the same item and even pay more if I see fast shipping feedback.

I also left the negative because I seen he had done the same “scare” tactics with other buyers were he left negative for them when they refused to retract the negative feedback they had left.

I was willing to take the negative hit so people could read both sides and see that the seller was being a bully.

He did not leave negative for me or others until we refused to retract.

The seller has such a large turnover that I doubt my negative affected any business but I guess if it caused one other person to perhaps shop elsewhere then it was worth it to take the hit myself.

36

[QUOTE=bathsheba]

The transaction isn’t over until the buyer has received their item and indicates their satisfaction by leaving feedback.
.
[/QUOTE]

The transaction isn’t over until the buyer has received their item; and the seller has received their payment and indicates their satisfaction by leaving feedback.

37

[QUOTE=CanvasShoes]

I’ve won a couple of items because the winning bidder didn’t pan out and I was offered the item on the (what do they call it, second chance?). I don’t know if that’s only offered to the runner-up or what though. :smiley:
[/QUOTE]

Did you pay your bid price, or one bid increment over the next highest bidder? The second chance thing is used as a shilling technique by unscrupulous sellers. Because of this, I respond to 2nd chance offers with an offer to buy at one incriment over next highest bidder. Shilling sellers will object to this…IME 75% or more of second chance offers are shilling.

38

[QUOTE=DrDeth]
The transaction isn’t over until the buyer has received their item; and the seller has received their payment and indicates their satisfaction by leaving feedback.
[/QUOTE]

This is the way I view it as well. The seller should leave the first feedback IMO.

39

While this has been a very interesting and enlightening discussion, the problem has pretty much resolved itself. I got an email from the lady in question just today, profusely apologizing for the payment delay, and saying she’d been out of town, and hadn’t checked her eBay messages as thoroughly as she should have. Given that she otherwise had good feedback, this email made me feel much better about the situation.

So I responded that as soon as she lets me know her order was received (so that we can resolve any issues before it reaches feedback stage), I’ll be happy to leave her good feedback.

40

[QUOTE=Queuing]
This is the way I view it as well. The seller should leave the first feedback IMO.
[/QUOTE]

That’s fine, but how does the seller know the item was delivered and that the buyer is satisfied with it?