another Harry Potter thread: predictions for the new book?

Cafe Society
41

[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried]

I still can’t believe that Harry’s scar is a horcrux, for reasons of logistics - I imagine that to create a horcrux, it’s not enough to murder someone, it would have to be a murder followed by a complex spell. This wouldn’t fit Harry’s attempted killing, because a) Harry didn’t die and b) Voldemort wouldn’t have been able to perform the complex spell after the Death curse rebounded back on him.
[/QUOTE]

This is valid reasoning, and I want to believe it because I don’t want Harry to be a horcrux. But a few things force me to have to accept that he is-

first, the fact that Dumbledore mentioned the possibility of Nagini being a horcrux, and then discussing specifically about living things possibly being horcruxes. I can’t help but think that this main purpose of this scene is to introduce the idea that a living thing can be a horcrux…I don’t think Harry can be a horcrux without this scene existing, it would be too much of a stretch. Of course this scene alone doesn’t mean that he is, but it seems like a seed to me. I dont, and most others dont, believe that Nagini is a horcrux. so why postulate a living thing? why spend time making it clear living things can be horcruxes?

but the biggest reason I have to believe is: throughout all the books, Harry often has inner dialogue in his head, arguing with himself. his own internal devil and angel. The angel always speaks in first person. The devil always third. These scenes happen enough that they seem to be more than just a “Harry reasoning” device, they are always the same, they always make me feel creepy, as though there is someone else in Harry’s head. I don’t think it can be exclaimed as simpy being Voldemort’s known mental connection with Harry, if I’m not misaken they happen even after Voldemort severs his link with Harry, and Voldemort has never been able to “talk” directly to Harry, especially when he was awake.

42

I agree that if Harry is a Horcrux (which I happen to find very plausible), it was unintentional on Voldemort’s part, and he might not even realize it happened. But the Horcrux spell must surely be very complicated (else one would see immortal murderers all over the place in the wizarding world), and things definitely didn’t go according to Voldemort’s death that night. So instead of Harry being the victim and some unspecified object ending up as the Horcrux, Lily was instead the victim, and the portion of the Horcrux spell which was focussed on Harry ended up making him the Horcrux. This does not mean that me must die: Remember, the ring was still intact (though damaged) after Dumbledore neutralized it. The outcome I suspect is that part of the reason that Harry’s such a powerful wizard is the fragment of Voldemort’s soul embedded within him, and that in the process of cleansing himself of it, he’ll have to permanently give up his magical ability (a dramatically satisfying sacrifice, but which still allows Harry to live out his life).

As for other predictions: I don’t think any of the obvious shippings count as “predictions” any more. Ron came to his senses about Hermione back in book 5, Hagrid and Maxime in book 4, and Harry and Ginny in book 6. At this point, it’d only be noteworthy if any of those pairings didn’t work out. I think that Neville and Luna make a nice couple, too, but I think Rowling has specifically denied that one.

One other prediction which I haven’t seen made before: Something in the last book inspires Nearly-Headless Nick that it’s time to move on, and he voluntarily steps through the curtain in the Department of Mysteries.

43

[QUOTE=Chronos]

One other prediction which I haven’t seen made before: Something in the last book inspires Nearly-Headless Nick that it’s time to move on, and he voluntarily steps through the curtain in the Department of Mysteries.
[/QUOTE]

Ooh, I like that. I never thought of what would happen if a ghost went through the veil. Someone told me a great prediction too about the veil, that that is how Dumbledore destroyed the ring (and his hand), he passed it through the veil. Now why he wouldnt have just chucked it through I don’t know, but if there were certain stipulations and all, I think it would be cool.

44

Voldemort planned six Horcruxes:

  1. The Riddle Diary
  2. The Peverell/Gaunt ring
  3. Slythein’s Locket
  4. Hufflepuff’s Cup
  5. [Ravenclaw’s Wand]
  6. [Gryffindor’s Sword]

1 and 2 are destroyed. 3 and 4 are missing and presumed Horcruxes. 5 and 6 are missing and apparently are Horcruxes only to the extent that SDMB speculation is accurate. If Nagini is a Horcrux (as guessed by Dumbledore), that makes seven. If Harry (or his scar) is a Horcrux, that makes eight.

IMHO, Dumbledore was correct in his belief that Gryffindor’s possessions remained out of Voldemort’s reach, dropping us back down to seven Horcruxes. I also believe that Harry is not a Horcrux, Nagini is, and there are only six Voldemort Horcruxes that have ever been created.

Of course, post #20 should give everyone an idea about how valuable my opinions are…

:smiley:

45

[QUOTE=Chronos]
So instead of Harry being the victim and some unspecified object ending up as the Horcrux, Lily was instead the victim, and the portion of the Horcrux spell which was focussed on Harry ended up making him the Horcrux.
[/quote]
I hear all the reasons why Harry can / should be a horcrux, and though I really hate the idea that he has to damage himself to conquer Voldemort, I understand that it fits well with what we know, but… The logistics still seem wrong to me.

What is needed for a horcrux: a murder and a spell. The spell must be related to the murder you want to perform, i.e. you somehow relate the spell to a specific magicide (or mugglecide?). The events, as we know them, are: Voldemort kills James Potter; comes in and tells Lily “stand aside silly girl!” (by the way, why does he give her the chance to step aside? why not just get rid of her?); Lily refuses and Voldemort kills her too; then he tries for the Avada Kedavra on Harry. If we believe Dumbledore who says that Voldemort would have saved horcrux creation for significant deaths, it is after the death of Lily, and while trying to kill Harry, that Voldemort would have been ready to create a horcrux.

Of course, applying my logic to the rules of the magic world is probably pointless. Anything can happen. It could have been that the “soul splitting” necessary for the creation of the Harry horcrux was the attempted murder of Harry (attempted murder is enough), or else Tom Riddle Jr’s soul was split because someone did, in fact, die when Voldemort tried to kill baby Harry: the person that died being Voldemort himself. The fact that Harry ended up as the receptacle of a morsel of Voldemort’s soul was due to the unpredictable nature of this magicke moste eville when unexpectedly brought into conflict with the Power of Love.

The presence of a fragment of Voldemort’s soul would explain some things (the knowledge of Parseltongue, the ability to penetrate Voldemort’s mind) but not Harry’s brilliance at Defense Against the Dark Arts (Patronus capability at such a young age) or his knack for Quidditch. Those happen because Harry, like his parents, is by nature talented.

I like that idea too, though I would be more interested in knowing the history of the Bloody Baron.

Another prediction - Suppose Harry is the last living descendant of Godric Gryffindor. His parents, hiding in Godric’s hollow, had in their possession Godric Gryffindor’s sword, the rightful property of James Potter. Afterwards, Dumbledore kept the sword in his office, instead of returning it to Harry, because he knew that Voldemort would kill to get that sword, and its possession was dangerous. (Albus was, of course, proud and pleased that Harry used his father’s sword to good effect at the end of Chamber of Secrets.) The possession of a Gryffindor relic (synonym: hallow) would give another reason for Voldemort to be searching for the Potters, and would supply the precious object that Voldemort would have wanted to use as a receptacle for the horcrux he would create when murdering Harry.

46

[QUOTE=Hung Mung]
I also suspect that Harry was an unintentional horcrux. I don’t think he’ll die, though. Someone in another thread suggested, and I like the idea, that Harry and company will destroy the other horcruxes and Voldemort, leaving the last bit of the evil bastard in Harry to guard for the rest of his life.

[/QUOTE]

Or until Diablo 2 is released. :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

47

Ok, can anyone explain why Dumbledore would immobilize Harry? Like I said, IMO it leaves him even more defenseless. He’s invisible, which is a great advantage, but to remove the ability to defend himself at all??? I mean, nobody saw the 2 brooms and put 2 and 2 together, but it wouldn’t be the 1st time Death Eaters attacked an invisible member of the Order- remember Sturgis Podmore?

I think Dumbledore wanted Harry to see the events that unfolded (otherwise he could have just motioned for him to back off when they heard footsteps on the stairs, and then Harry could have gone downstairs once the coast was clear), but I don’t know why. Did he want Harry to see the conversation with Malfoy? Or for him to see Snape kill him?

Or maybe, he didn’t want Harry protecting him. Having an invisible accomplice would mean Harry could fight Malfoy/Death Eaters/Snape, and then Dumbledore would be saved. And if we assume that Dumbledore sacrificed himself, that totally ruins everything.

Any other thoughts on why Dumbledore immoblized Harry?

48

[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried]
Another prediction - Suppose Harry is the last living descendant of Godric Gryffindor.
[/QUOTE]

Harry is not the Heir of Gryffindor.

49

Snape is good. Dumbledore was already dying. Remember his deformed hand from the trap. Dumbledore was basically poisoned and was only able to slow down his oncoming demise. So he planned with Snape to be killed by him. That would show the Death Eaters that Snape was “on their side.” Harry will learn of this from Dumbledores pensieve where Dumbledore will have left a memory of the them making the plans.

50

[QUOTE=Revedge]
Snape is good. Dumbledore was already dying. Remember his deformed hand from the trap. Dumbledore was basically poisoned and was only able to slow down his oncoming demise. So he planned with Snape to be killed by him. That would show the Death Eaters that Snape was “on their side.” Harry will learn of this from Dumbledores pensieve where Dumbledore will have left a memory of the them making the plans.
[/QUOTE]

OooOOOooh the Pensieve… excellent idea!

51

The cover art has recently been put up at mugglenet. Just thought it might help with your speculation.

52

Hmm…neither Harry nor Voldemort is holding a wand. I wonder if that’s significant, or if it’s just artistic license.

I predicted quite a while ago that the cover lettering would be in red - score one for me! (although I also predicted, wrongly, that the predominant color of the cover art would be black)

53

[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried]
The remaining horcruxes are: Ravenclaw’s wand (the wand we saw in the window of Ollivander’s way back in Philosopher’s Stone when Harry first went to Diagon Alley), Hufflepuff’s cup, **Slytherin’s locket (the mysterious gold locket found at Grimmauld place in Order of the Phoenix), ** and (surprise!) Gryffindor’s sword from Dumbledore’s office - Dumbledore made a mistake when he assumed that Nagini was a horcrux. (As has been pointed out by people smarter than I, the four relics of the founders correspond to the four suits of a tarot deck.)
[/quote]

Based on the cover to the UK adults’ version, it looks like the locket may be significant!

54

[QUOTE=RedRosesForMe]
Ok, can anyone explain why Dumbledore would immobilize Harry? …
[/QUOTE]

I always thought that it was because Harry is such a hothead (read: teenaged boy) and would charge in to try to defend Dumbledore against Malfoy and the Deatheaters. There would be nothing left of Harry but a grease smear on the wall of the tower.

Immobilized and under the invisiblility cloak he was safe unless someone smacked right into him.

55

[QUOTE=Hung Mung]
I also suspect that Harry was an unintentional horcrux. I don’t think he’ll die, though. Someone in another thread suggested, and I like the idea, that Harry and company will destroy the other horcruxes and Voldemort, leaving the last bit of the evil bastard in Harry to guard for the rest of his life.

[/QUOTE]

OH OH OH

I have to get this down before it flees my mind.

If Dumbledore suspected about the horcruxes before, then when he used Harry’s blood in that ritual and was able to touch him without being in pain…

…if he DID make a horcrux out of Harry, maybe he broke his own horcrux in that ritual where he used Harry’s blood to revive himself? It seems like he got a bit of his soul back there. He might have thought he’d put his horcrux somewhere else but since he doesn’t know when his horcruces are broken, maybe he doesn’t know where they go and just trusts his ritual. Since he croaked in the middle of it…

56

[QUOTE=kortia]
The cover art has recently been put up at mugglenet. Just thought it might help with your speculation.
[/QUOTE]

Anyone have any ideas how I can get the full cover to fit into a single screen of my browser?

57

Yes - try The Leaky Cauldon’s version instead.

58

[QUOTE=Chronos]
I agree that if Harry is a Horcrux (which I happen to find very plausible), it was unintentional on Voldemort’s part, and he might not even realize it happened. But the Horcrux spell must surely be very complicated (else one would see immortal murderers all over the place in the wizarding world), and things definitely didn’t go according to Voldemort’s death that night. So instead of Harry being the victim and some unspecified object ending up as the Horcrux, Lily was instead the victim, and the portion of the Horcrux spell which was focussed on Harry ended up making him the Horcrux. This does not mean that me must die: Remember, the ring was still intact (though damaged) after Dumbledore neutralized it. The outcome I suspect is that part of the reason that Harry’s such a powerful wizard is the fragment of Voldemort’s soul embedded within him, and that in the process of cleansing himself of it, he’ll have to permanently give up his magical ability (a dramatically satisfying sacrifice, but which still allows Harry to live out his life).
[/QUOTE]

I’ve been thinking this exact thing for a while now. And, it really would wrap things up nicely.

This being a kid’s book, Harry dying just isn’t really an option. Harry giving up/losing all or most of his magic would be a huge sacrifice on his part. It may be even more frightening for him than death - to go back to being “just Harry”.

I really hope JKR doesn’t cop out and give us an “after a week in the hospital wing they all lived happily ever after” ending.

59

[QUOTE=kaylasdad99]
Anyone have any ideas how I can get the full cover to fit into a single screen of my browser?
[/QUOTE]
Or right-click on the graphic, save it to your hard disk, and open it in a graphics program that allows you to change the scale of what you see on the screen.

60

On the UK cover (child’s version) that looks like Dobby holding up Gryffindor’s sword. Hogwarts is on the back (I agree with cmkeller that Harry et al. will return to school this year - that’s the whole premise behind having 7 books!), and also a crystal ball showing a two-headed serpent, reminiscent of the two-headed snake that Dumbledore saw in his magic silver machine in Order Of The Phoenix (divided in essence? but of course! says Dumbledore). Our three heroes seem to have burst into a hidden treasure room with a suit of armour prominent in the illustration.

The US cover shows a fiery sky and a curtain reminiscent of the curtain leading to death in the Department of mysteries. However the US cover seems to show a location outdoors, some kind of arena with a crowd of onlookers (Death Eaters) watching Harry and Voldie. Harry looks like he just accidentally dropped a Golden Snitch and is begging it to come back, while Voldemort is gloating “my turn to get it now, Mr. I’m-the-youngest-seeker-in-history!”. The remains of the Quidditch goalposts, destroyed in their brutal match, lie in ruins in the foreground.

In the UK adult version we see Slytherin’s locket and we find out that JK Rowling reads Sue Townsend’s Adrian Mole series (which I hadn’t heard of until today.)