Another how far up shit creek is California thread ($20 minimum wage)

In My Humble Opinion
201

More likely, they’ve lowered their prices because everyone is going across the street to In and Out, which has a drive through wrapped around the block while there is rarely anyone even at that McDonalds.

McDonald’s also announced a couple of weeks ago that they were lowering their price on select items due to customer pushback. I suspect that is what you are seeing on their app.

And I suggest ditching the app completely and going to In and Out. You’ll save at least $5 and get better food, which was my original point.

202

For most people in America, that five dollars in savings will be dwarfed by the cost of traveling to an In N Out Burger location.

203

Yes, this is true, but I was responding to the person who said that In and Out had “elevated prices”. Obviously, if you don’t have an In and Out near you, the price difference isn’t going to matter much.

204

Last time I found myself at McDonald’s they were running an “any size drink $1” special. Maybe that’s why.

205

Even in Hawaii, McD is $1 for any size drink. Big Mac meal with medium fries is ~$13 with tax.

How much do Fast Food workers make in Hawaii?
As of Feb 4, 2024, the average hourly pay for the Fast Food jobs category in Hawaii is $14.50 an hour.
Chick-fil-A is $14.85.

206

Found a study addressing Evidence of The Unintended Labor Scheduling Implications of The Minimum Wage

This study concludes that for every $1 that the minimum wage increases, the average number of hours each worker at a firm decreased by 20.8% in California stores. I didn’t read the whole paper, but I doubt that’s going to be a linear increase.

It further finds that this wage increase ultimately resulted in a total compensation loss of 13.6% due to lost hours and other compensation.

207

The point was simple. Folks who argued for wage floors handwaved away all concerns about 2nd and 3rd order effects. Now, they fight for higher wage floors while being willfully blind about the coming to pass of the predicted higher order economic and strategic effects and ignore all concerns about the unintended consequences of pushing for the same ill thought out policy. I guess, having a dominant position in the domestic burger market is a fair trade off from being the dominant global manufacturer.

That is if the graphs of economic power when looking at GDP adjusted for PPP didn’t tell a different story. GDP, PPP (current international $) - China, United States | Data (worldbank.org)

208

Now you’re actually saying something other than a random drive-by. Well done, there can be a discussion now.

But you’re going to have to be more clear. Are you arguing that minimum wages, which manufacturing virtually never pays, is the reason China is beating the US in GDP after adjusting for international currency? Or are you arguing that minimum wage for service industry employees - which, almost tautologically must be local - will drive those jobs overseas? Is there a reason you chose the graph that shows straight GDP and not one that accounts for the fact China has four times the population of the US? “China makes 20% more stuff than the US despite a one billion population advantage, but only if you account for the average Chinese citizen having a quarter of the purchasing power of a US citizen” is not the ownage you seem to think worth a drive-by.

209

Full price and specialty items at McDonalds have been on the pricey side for a while now, 5-10 years at least , but like most fast food restaurants they have some cheap options. I can get 2 McDoubles or McChicken sandwiches for $3.50.

210

Back when I worked at McDonalds it was hamburgers, Quarter Pounders, Big Macs and Fillet-o-fish. We were a test store for steak sandwiches which failed and McNuggets which were clearly a success. I remember going up to people in line with a tray full of samples.

211

Maybe you answered this in another thread, but since I assume you ate your fair share while you worked there, do you notice a difference in the food now, quality-wise. I know they changed the fries a long time ago by removing the beef flavoring.

212

It seems about the same to me.

213

Just FYI- those “news stories” about all the laid off fast food worker in California? Fake.

[
FOX NEWS BUSINESS)

Fast-food jobs have increased in California since the state implemented a $20 minimum wage across the industry despite claims by trade groups that say the hike has hurt franchisees and their employees.”

“The fast-food industry in California added 10,000 jobs from March through May, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. The new wage went into effect on April 1.”

WALL STREET JOURNAL

“The increased pay is helping with worker retention, Raising Cane’s said.”

“Since January, nearly 21,000 fast-food jobs were added in California, according to BLS data.”

214

[Right-wing-o-sphere] “Don’t bother me with facts! Common sense tells us the $20 an hour thing is blowing up the economy and worsening inflation. Haven’t you seen how much it costs at KFC!! It’s all Gavin Newsom’s fault!”

215

They’re closing the Shake Shack in Oakland. Right wingers are up in arms, saying this is because of the minimum wage increase. I have no idea. I’m just annoyed that the Shack Shack in Oakland is closing, because I eat there all the time.

216

Since “skill” has figured in this thread, may I add a couple of thoughts on the subject?

Many jobs require considerable skill that does not count as skill because many people have the skill. Driving a car reasonably well takes a huge amount of skill and carries major consequences if it is not done well, but no one gets paid extra just for having a driver’s license, because lots of people have a driver’s license. It doesn’t count as a skill, just a credential.

A better example might be logging. It takes a lot of skill to cut trees quickly and safely. But 125 years ago, logging was considered and paid as unskilled work because an awful lot of male immigrants came to North America from farms, where they had learned to cut trees. “Anybody” could do the job because many men already had the training and skill. Ditto women in domestic service and textile work.

Much “skill” is gendered. Carpenters? Mostly male, skilled. Seamstresses? Mostly women, unskilled. Ditto with much work being racialized.

Many “skilled” jobs didn’t require much real skill, if by that we mean in part exercising independent judgement. Railway engineers don’t even have to steer, but they were highly paid largely to faithfully observe all the rules so the trains stayed on the tracks.

Skills you have and take for granted may not seem like skills to you: lucky you! That doesn’t mean the job does not take skill. I was told by one boss, “any idiot can do this job.” Well,this idiot couldn’t, so I got a PhD instead.

Smapti outlined some of the tasks required in fast food work, and while some people may master them quickly, that is often the result of innate talent or adjacent training. Love to play sports? You may have the needed proprioception to maneuver adroitly in the hot, cramped, crowded fast food place. Lucky you!

Emotional labour in particular takes all kinds of skill that is rarely recognized and paid as such. “We hire people who are people people” is a recognition of “personality,” and the ability to fake sincerity: skills many can learn and some are “born” with and so seem “natural,” but they are hard for many to master.

Car assembly line work may be considered “unskilled,” but the UAW insisted workers deserved high salaries because the jobs were shitty. Makes sense to me. Ditto fast foods.

Finally, the “law of supply and demand” isn’t like the law of gravity or even one of the commandments. It is simply a decision to allow certain kinds of behavior, such as “giving” a job to the lowest bidder or selling your commodity to the highest bidder. Many societies would beat the heck out of somebody who pulled that shit. It’s a “law” in the economy most of us live in, so common we think it reflects “human nature,” but there is nothing inevitable or eternal about it. As many in this thread have recognized, we can do better.

Just my unskilled two cents’ worth.

217

FWIW, two of them in the Houston area are also closing - not an area known for high minimum wages. There are reportedly 9 such closures nationwide in Texas, Ohio, and California.

The company’s own cited reason is underperformance and suspected cannibalization from sales at other stores in the region. Given the lower minimum wages in Ohio and Texas compared to California, that’s an entirely plausible line of reasoning.

218

Indeed, customer facing positions particularly of the, “unskilled,” variety take patience. Sometimes these jobs take more patience then most humans would or should have. That’s when you have to fake it. Days like that, Drama club was the best training I ever had. Oh, and there is so much more to navigating corporate culture, unrealistic expectations, constantly overturning workers, and people who don’t have the skill set(s.)

219

If you think everyone can “just learn a trade” you don’t live in reality. Middle-class trades, along with the death of unions, aren’t that abundant and the jobs that do exist are a poor match for the skills and abilities of millions of people. This is like telling coal miners “just learn to code, bro.” There will always be a significant portion (probably in the tens of millions) of the U.S. workforce who will never be in the professional or managerial classes or be able to get training and access (and the ability) for skilled trades. And that’s not counting the millions who can’t even get and keep a fast food job (for many reasons) and have given up trying.

As far as kids go, human beings have never waited to have kids but in fact we are waiting longer than ever. In the “good ole days” that some folks look back on fondly (while discounting the reasons it was possible to raise a family on one income with a HS diploma), most people got married and had kids while never achieving higher education or specialized training. And a lot of the same people who put down working class Americans who can’t get by despite working fulltime, then shame them for NOT having kids as it’s supposedly some sort of patriotic duty.

The reality is, without a “living wage” millions of people and families will have to be subsidized by someone. While we have Presidents (and their supporters) who think it’s OK for the government to steal houses and give it to said president for his personal profit, and Billionaires/governments/investors who think it’s cool to give 15-year tax exemptions to trillion dollar corporations for construction that creates 30 middle-class jobs. Maybe instead of supporting Billionaire Welfare Queens and trillionaire rent-seekers, people who work fulltime could afford housing, food, and healthcare. But instead we subsidize the billionaires so they can pay employees less, and then employees can be the scapegoats of millions (including most of the people in their own class).

220

There really isn’t a choice in the matter. People are paid for the worth of their labor.

As far as kids go my parent’s generation was able to limit the number of children to what they could afford. It’s not rocket science. And I would put their HS education against a 4 year college degree as a skill-set. there was no grading curve to make them feel good about getting A’s when they were really C’s. My father built a house from scratch without any formal trade skills beyond a library card and his HS education. He was taught how to learn. He passed this skill on to his children as did my mother.

You can’t pay people lots of money because they need it. It will price them out of a job in the long run. You can see it now with fast food. People are scaling back on their spending because it’s costing too much.

The reality of it is people who cannot support themselves should wait to have children until they can support a family. Failure of this simple process is the root of generational poverty.