They’ll come in again.
Uncle.
Among Men, perhaps, even probably. But Sauron, Gandalf, Elladan, Elrohir, Legolas etc. might beg to differ if you’re talking about everyone alive at that time.
Well, Gandalf is powerful, but he’s not exactly a “badass”. His power manifests in different ways.
As for the elves, well, it’s not the years, it’s the mileage. Sure, they’re a lot older than him, but they’ve spent most of that time sitting around and being emo, while Aragorn has been struggling to survive every day for like 70 years.
Think back to The Hobbit, when Gandalf is considering ways to deal with Smaug. Slaying him was one option, but that would take a Hero, and he wasn’t even sure if there were any of those left in the world. This, despite visiting all three of the elves you mention en route to the Lonely Mountain. And then, the dragonslayer still turns out to be a human.
I think this is a compelling argument but it still feels like a bit of a crutch. Some extra exposition in the books would have been helpful on this point. At least if the Nazgul had more noticeably flinched or something it wouldn’t raise so may questions. I certainly don’t buy the “deathly afraid of fire” line and the heir of Isuldur thing while meaningful isn’t a shield.
Oh, yeah, I agree that they’re not deathly afraid of fire. It’s something that can be used against them, but then, it’s something that can be used against ordinary mortals, too. Aragorn used a torch because that’s what he had.
Tolkien was very consciously writing in a mytho-poetic mode. The foundations of Reality in Middle-Earth are literally Myth and Poetry (it was sung into existence).
Aragorn, Son of Arathorn, Heir of Isildur, and the True King of the Numenoreans, Stood atop Weathertop, in Defiance of Fear and Despair, in Defense of the Innocent and in Defense of Hope, in a Place That Was of Old a Stronghold of His People.
In Middle-Earth, those are Truths that have Power.
That said, the Nazgul weren’t invulnerable either. Either enough injury or possibly just damaging their robes could rob them of their form in some fashion, hence why they had to creep back to Mordor like shadows after getting (literally) stomped by a raging river. They were ambushed and wounded and quite possibly didn’t even entirely realize it was just one guy. Withdrawal probably seemed like the best option, given that they now had a very accurate bead on the ring-bearer. They might not be killable, but that didn’t make them unstoppable.
Plus, one small element about Tolkein is that evil is cowardly. Though it might not seem so at first because so many evil characters love violence, they’re also bullies and unable to risk anything in a real battle. the only reason they fight except when circumstances favor them heavily is when good forces the matter, or they realize that they drastically underestimate their opponent. It’s unclear when, or if, the Balrog realized he had bitten off a lot more than he could chew, but he spent a three day battle with Gandalf running for his miserable life. Gollum, while under the influence of the Ring, was only capable of treachery and strikes from hiding. Orcs on multiple occasions proved unable to stand up the moment they were intimidated. Ungoliant never tried anything except to ambush isolated orcs in a thousand years. Even Sauron spent the whole story hiding in his tower, when his presence might well have turned the tide of battle - and in the first place lost the ring because the Last Alliance marched into Mordor and gave him no choice.
I have a question about a scene out of “Five Armies” I recently watched. Gandalf is sick/dying being held prisoner in a cage. Then a woman elf shows up to help him. They are surrounded by ghosts who are trying to kill them. Something about 7 and 3 and more about rings (I think). Then another elf and wizard to the rescue. How many goddamn rings were there? I thought the last one was destroyed in previous books/movies. Or is 5 armies supposed to be a prequel?
The 3 Hobbit movies (were an atrocity) were prequels. There were
Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
There were also lesser rings, but those were the 20 major rings. Sauron helps with the making of the 9 for men & 7 for Dwarves but the Elven Ring were untouched by him and Sauron alone forged the one ring.
The Female Elf was Galadriel, who had one of the Elf Rings and possibly the most powerful person on Middle earth, short of Sauron himself.
Also assisting was Saruman the White, before he got turned, and Elrond- who had one of the other Elf rings, as did Gandalf.
Aka The White Council, if you add in Radagast and maybe Glorfindel.
Almost surely Glorfindel and probably Cirdan the Shipwright who was a member of the White Council.
My question is- what happened to the Nine Rings? Between the second fall of Sauron at Dagorlad - and the destruction of the One?
In one part of LotR is it intimated that they wear them, in another that Sauron does. Ok, if Sauron does- how did he get them? He was formless as The Necromancer after Ilisdur cut the One off his hand.
But in the Hobbit film the Nine were apparently imprisoned. Ok, but why lock them in with their rings? Sauron certainly didnt have them.
And since two of the Seven were destroyed, why not just destroy the Nine? And yes, the Nine Rings were necessary to make the Nazgul and keep them around, otherwise other greedy for power human would have picked up and worn one of the nine and beca=ome a Ringwraith, but no- there are exactly Nine.
Yes, Glorfindel- but Cirdan gave up his Ring to Gandalf as Cirdan want to concentrate on his duties to send Elves to the West.
I don’t know if I would quite go that far. She was strong, yes, but there were stronger and older beings. Her power lay more in sight, or concealment from it, of present and future.
I’m not entirely certain she had the same power as Cirdan or even Celeborn if it came down to it, who had been actively and personally defending their homes for several eons. Of course, she was more than just clever - she was 100% Grade-A Accept-No-Substitutes Wise. She survived basically all of history, and had many mystical gifts of sight at her hand.
[quote=“What_Exit, post:28, topic:849893”]
The 3 Hobbit movies (were an atrocity) were prequels./QUOTE]
I agree 1 and 2 weren’t real good, but I thought the third one was a lot of fun.
Like whom?
Oh yeah, we forget Celeborn (Hard C, remember) he’d be on the White Council also.
At the end, Galadriel had the power to throw down the walls of Dol Guldur through her “Sorceries”. With the Ring of Air she kept Lothlórien nearly timeless or at least somewhat out of time. Her pool rivaled the powers of the Palantir. She was an Elf of the Light, Granddaughter of Finwë and a student of Melian. she was more powerful than Celeborn or Elrond. But Cirdan is tricky, he was possibly among the very first Elves to be born. Glorfindel is also tricky, another Elf of the Light, a Captain of Gondolin that died killing a Balrog but was sent back to help by the Valar themselves.
However, Galadriel was not as powerful as the Wizards or Sauron. These were all Maiar.
Galadriel wasn’t as powerful as Sauron, but I wouldn’t be certain comparing her to the Wizards, who, remember, were all limited to far below their natural levels of power. Of course, both she and Gandalf were wise enough not to settle the question conclusively.
It seems to me that Galadriel was not as hampered in the power she dare use or display in Middle Earth as the Istari were. Even though technically most of the elves’ power was so to speak “soft” power; but she was someone whom nature itself would happily do a favor or three if she asked.
That’s fair, as the Wizards, Galadriel was probably more powerful but back in their true nature, the Wizards would be.
At the Council of Elrond (IIRC), Elrond accounts for all the major rings. The 9 are held by the Nazgul, the 3 he knows about (but doesn’t go into detail). He says the 7 dwarf rings are all either returned to Sauron or consumed by dragons. Ergo, Frodo’s must be The Ash Nazg.
It took me a long time to realize that dragons probably didn’t just eat the ring, but the dwarf that was wearing it at the time.