Another old dog

In My Humble Opinion
1

Well, I know I’ve been the insensitive bastard in past old dog threads, so here’s the chance to give me back some of my medicine.

Daisy, our golden retriever, was 10 in August. Last winter she had a pretty rough time - the cold really seemed to bother her and she had a lot of difficulty with mobility. She appeared to be in pain and overall “not happy.”

We got her started on Previcox, and she seems much happier and much more mobile. That’s $600/year. Plus, the vet wants to do regular blood work on her to see if it is hurting her liver. We say if her liver goes, we’ll put her to sleep, but if she weren’t on the Previcox and had a lousy a winter as the last one, we’d put her to sleep anyways. So he let us sign waivers and kept prescribing the meds.

Another issue - this spring she seems to have gotten some kind of skin infection. She scratches all of the time, and we give her antihistamines when it is really bad. She seems to have lost quite a bit of fur on her belly, and her belly skin is darker than the pink it used to be. Worst of all, she smells, and as a result, our house is beginning to smell. Instead of vaccuuming 1-2X/week, we were vacuuming nearly every day. We couldn’t find anything in the yard she was rolling in, and couldn’t locate any bugs she was scratching, or any rashes or such. Several vet visits have failed to identify a cause.

Issue 3, she got a hematoma in her ear - I think from all the scratching.

Wife took her to the vet this a.m. and called me afterwards. Vet recommended surgery under anesthesia, but she reacted poorly to anesthesia in the past, plus it was expensive. So we are having a stent put in to drain it. Vet also is doing some blood work to continue prescibing the Previcox and to hope to ID the skin problem. And is prescribing some kind of shampoo/spray combination to hopefully correct the skin/odor problem. Bottomline, $250.

Now I totally love my dog, but I have always said that pets are not people, and that I would not spend huge amounts to keep a pet alive. I had figured that I would spend $600 on the Previcox for the next couple of years I expect her to live, but not if she is going to be incurring sizeable additional expenses on top of that.

Then there is the issue of whether I am keeping alive my current dog, or my memories of the dog she was. She does not seem to be in pain, but she doesn’t do much other than sleep most of the day. She loves to go out and get the paper every morning, but that is about the highlight of her day. A walk around the block pretty much tires her out. I’m not sure if I’m painting a good picture - she’s pretty much inoffensive (but for the smell), but for the most part, she’s pretty much just there.

She has lost some weight - 55# this morning down from an average of 60 and a high of 65. And this is from a dog that really doesn’t get much exercise. Under all her fur you can really feel the bones in her butt sticking out.
It would be easy if the doctor said they needed to do several thousand $ of exploratory surgery, or if they diagnosed a terminal disease. But instead, it seems the vet bills are just adding up bit by bit.

If today’s 250 corrects the ear and skin things, I'll be fine with keeping her on the Previcox. But if not, I'm not sure I want to keep spending a premium to keep a smelly old dog hanging around. I'd rather spend the on a new puppy, and look forward to the next 10 years, instead of keeping alive memories of the past 10. I find myself feeling as tho I am spending a not inconsequential amount of money to keep her alive mainly so she can sleep and eat.

Thoughts?

2

My thoughts are that after 10 years she deserves better than to be considered nothing more than a smelly old dog. I think the responsibilities we owe to our pets include considering what is in their best interests and not just our own.

I also think this thread is not going to go well for you.

3

That’s fine. I knew going in that there were many folk out there who feel and act extremely differently towards their pets than I do.

So what exactly do you consider the “responsibilities [you] owe [y]our pets?”

Is there an upper limit in terms of expense? Why do you get a pet? Is at least a part of your motivation to have it improve the quality of your life? If it ceases to do so, do your obligations change? Or are you willing to sublimate your interests to act instead as you believe might be in the pet’s best interets?

I think a significant way I differ from many pet owners/lovers is that I consider myself extremely limited in trying to discern exactly what is in the animal’s best interests. I think far too many people approach such a question from the point of view of “How would I like to be treated if I were a dog?” But you aren’t a dog, and the dog is not a human.

4

I once asked my dad (a hospital pharmacist in the neo-natal intensive care unit of a children’s hospital) when he thought “enough was enough” and they should just let these very sick babies die. He answered, “When we have no reason to believe they will ever have another thought which glorifies God.” I thought it was a strange answer from an atheist, but more conversation led me to interpret it as this: If a creature cannot comfortably wonder at and praise creation - whether it be a work of art, the workings of a microscope, the leaves of a tree, or a chew toy - then it’s time to exit.

Watch her. Does she have moments where she still acts like she’s thinking, in her doggy way, “Oh boy oh boy oh boy - it’s a SLIPPER TO CHEW ON! Yippee!”? Or, “Oh boy oh boy oh boy…DINSDALE’S HOME! Yippee!”? If she’s not getting joy out of life - if she’s not glorifying God as that applies to an animal in an agnostic universe - then maybe it’s time to go.

She’s not human, no. But she “deserves” moments of happiness just as much as humans do. (Which is to say, not at all, until one brings medicine into the picture and can make choices about it.)

And, frankly, I think you wouldn’t have opened this thread, and made yourself vulnerable to the treatment you expect as a result, if you didn’t already know it was time. I could be wrong about that, maybe you do just want to discuss it dispationately and philisophically, or maybe you’re just a masochist.

It’s not like the dog has a dread of dying. This is all about you, not about her.

5

The responsibilities IMO owed to a pet include ensuring they have a good quality of life and safeguarding that life until it is no longer reasonable to do so. Sure, there’s a upper limit in terms of expense and there’s a time at which your interests trump those of your pet’s. But these things are continuums (continua?) and for every pet owner when they can or should put the animal down will be different. Look, I’m more often in your camp than in the “I’d sell my house to save my cat” camp, It’s just pretty off-putting to hear the analysis set forth so entirely in what is in your best interest, with no consideration for what is in your pet’s best interest – you know, the pet you’re contemplating having killed after 10 years of loyalty and affection.

The animal is not in pain. She’s still eating and sleeping. She still enjoys getting the paper, she still makes it around the block. I don’t know your financial situation, but unless I’ve completely missed my mark based on what I’ve read, a thousand bucks a year isn’t going to put you in the poor house. And are you keeping the current dog alive, or your “memories of the dog she was” – you’re keeping the current dog alive, because she has a right to live that is not tied to her continuing to entertain and amuse you when she’s too elderly to do so, as if she has to continue to earn her earthly existence (after 10 years) or she forfeits it.

I think most people consider that the dog has an interest in continuing to exist until such time as its life becomes burdensome to it due to pain or difficulty. That’s the dog’s best interests. The second step IMO is to then weigh the dog’s best interests against your own reasonable interests – including expense and a clean house – and judging which outweighs the other. Every person makes that call differently, and it’s not for me or anyone else to say when is the right time for you and your pet. But to many people pets are not as disposable or as interchangeable as they appear to be to you, and those people may well consider some of your analysis (like whether it wouldn’t be better to put the money towards a new puppy) to be distasteful if not indefensible.

ETA: That last part sounded pretty harsh, and I apologize . Maybe you have deeper feelings for this dog that your OP indicates and you just prefer not to share them on a message board. Like I said, no one can make this particular decision for you – though you may want to make sure your wife and kids are involved as well.

6

Well, she certainly does have her moments. Like I said, every morning she runs out (unleashed - I’m SUCH a bad owner) and comes rushing back in with the paper, to get her dog biscuit. Once in a while she rushes out the back door to bark birds and squirrels away from the feeder. And she definitely loves her occasional rawhide. And she’ll sit next to you for as long as you are willing to scratch her.

But if you add up all of those “God glorifying?!” moments, I’d bet you’d be hard-pressed to come up with 20 minutes out of every day. For the remainder, she doesn’t seem to be in pain, but she’s pretty much just “there.” But with the meds, she doesn’t seem to be in pain. She still has her sight and hearing, isn’t incontinent, and is able to get up and down stairs to the back yard. (She stopped coming upstairs to sleep in our room several years ago, and over the past couple of years climbing into the car became more of an effort for her.)

7

Thanks for your always welcome input. Although I cannot expect as much of everyone on these forums, I’d expect you to acknowledge that perhaps the true subtleties involved might not be optimally communicated in a relatively brief typed message.

I’m not all that sure I agree with your position as to an animal’s “right” to continued life. That might be fertile ground for another thread (and perhaps already has.)

I’m not sure it is entirely fair to suggest I consider pets “interchangeable or disposable.” I think by any standard Daisy has enjoyed a pretty good run these past 10 years. Both she, and our family, were extremely fortunate. But I and my wife are approaching the point where we are beginning to:

I posted here in the hopes of receiving feedback that might help me in performing this weighing. I fully expected to get some kneejerk criticism along the way, if for no other reason than that my presentation of my situation seemed overly analytical and stressed economic factors.

Re: my situation, I could easily spend a grand a year on my dog if I wished to. Would probably have to make some economies elsewhere, but it could easily be done. I’m sure I spend well over $1000/year playing golf. Or I could just pull it out of savings. But I believe my present questions would be quite similar whether I earned 1/2 or 2X my current income.

8

Well, it’s up to you. In such a case, if I could afford it, I’d keep her around a bit longer and enjoy her biscuit munching moments. If she’s still capable of being happy (or looking to you like she’s happy) and she’s not in pain, then I’d keep the ol’ girl around a bit longer.

When her pain outweighs her happiness (by whatever rubric you decide - intensity or duration or whatever), or she becomes a financial burden (again, by whatever rubric you decide) then thank her for the good times, apologize for the bad, and off she goes, IMHO. As you yourself say, there’s really not a good way for anyone else to make that determination.

9

She’s earned it, Dins. Let her BE “just there”. Heck, when I get home from work, I’m sitting on the couch and tired and pretty much “just there”. Love her, appreciate her, get the paper with her - she’s earned it. And she deserves it. She’s just getting old - which all of us are. Whether we like it or not. Spend the time you have left with her loving her.

10

Well, I guess it is lucky for you that you aren’t sitting on MY couch! :wink:
I’m assuming, tho, that after I pet you my hand wouldn’t stink … :dubious:

11

That’s my line of demarcation, though I admit, the last time, I’m pretty sure I went a day or two past it. I don’t think I’d hesitate to spend some dough for another dottering doggie golden year (or at least several months). No chemo, or expensive last ditch life extending heroics, though.

12

If the cost of the Previcox is really an issue, then talk to the vet about using something less expensive. There are lots of pain meds out there for dogs now that cost less and are just as effective.

If the $250 for the skin issue doesn’t resolve it, take her to a dermatologist. It’ll cost more at the outset, but they’ll be able to get to the bottom of the problem, which will make her more comfortable and then hopefully you can stop spending money on tests and meds.

Old age isn’t for sissies - be kind and patient with her. That doesn’t cost a thing. Give her what you can to make life more comfortable for her, and when that can’t be done any more, you will know it is time to say goodbye.

13

Oddly enough, Mr2U just called to find out when to pick me up after work and I mentioned this to him. He said to let you know that, “No, they wouldn’t - but that he always washes his hands after petting me.” :rolleyes: :smiley:

14

Dinsdale, I apparently killed wonder9’s thread by posting my own woes to it, but I’m facing the same decision (actually made the decision, if you get right down to it–just had to convince my husband.) In your situation, depending on the ability to get rid of the smell in the house, I’d just let her “be”. In my case, my dog is having hearing problems, vision problems, bad teeth, has arthritis, cysts and tumors, and now has an allergy problem that has her pretty much bald on the underside, and losing hair in patches on the back. I cannot afford to fix all the things that are wrong, and all she does (even on antihistamines) is scratch. So I’m betting you can guess what my decision is here. :frowning: She goes to the vet Saturday. I hope you and your family can still get some happy time with Daisy before you have to let her go.

15

Dinsdale - My personal theory is the dog will let you know. A dog that no longer wants to live stops eating. Even if she’s lost some weight, as long as she’s enjoying her walk, enjoying her paper-fetching, enjoys being with you, it’s not time. As long as you can afford to give her what she needs, I’d keep giving it to her.

StG

16

I’m really sorry, TroubleAgain. :frowning:

17

Well, lately I’ve been calling the bonehead “conehead”, seeing as she has one of those big plastic collars on to keep her from messing with her ear. What an idiot - she doesn’t seem to be able to figure out that the thing actually makes her wider, and she is just walking it into furniture, doors, etc.

And last night I gave her the first shampoo of a couple-week shampoo and spray treatment. So she doesn’t stink right now, tho she was starting to do some scratching as the evening wore on.

Yeah, I still enjoy having her around, and am in no rush to get rid of her. But my wife and I just realized that over the past several months we had spent several hundred $ on her over and above normal expenses. We just wanted to make sure we realized what we were getting into, instead of gradually being nickled and dimed into a larger investment than we were used to or desired.

I also think there is a bit of pressure - by aspects of society and some vets - to spend more on older dogs than I am comfortable with. For example, the vet noted a lump, and recommended surgery to see if it was just a fatty deposit or something worse. That would have been several hundred more dollars, and our past experience was that Daisy didn’t do well with anesthesia.

Also, I think last winter was so tough, that we kinda got to thinking that she wouldn’t be around too terribly much longer. When we started with the Previcox, I guess we didn’t really think how long we would be paying for that. Then we were a little surprised when we went to a different vet recently and he said she was basically in decent shape, and might well last another 2-4 years.

Final point, at an early age Daisy firmly imprinted upon me. She is great to my wife and kids, but her world clearly revolves around me. And my wife is generally the one who takes her to vet visits during the day while I’m working, and she pays the bills. So she legitimately questions how much effort and expense she wishes to spend on a dog that is primarily loyal to me.

Just wanted to give an update. Thanks for all the input and for allowing me to use this forum to exlore my thoughts.

18

Huh. My vet just did a needle aspiration to determine that my dog’s (first) lump was just a fatty deposit. Didn’t cost much at all, and he was able to tell me right away that it was nothing.

Update: Himself decided to leave work early today to take care of what must be done. So…no goodbye, but that’s probably best–labs are very empathic doggies, and I don’t want to blubber all over her and upset her in her last hour. We had a good night together last night. That will have to be enough.

eta: Thanks, koeeoaddi, for the sympathy. This really does hurt.

19

TroubleAgain, my deepest, deepest sympathies. I’ve had to make the decision myself in the past, and man it hurts so badly. Your husband is doing a good thing.

20

The greatest act of kindness can be to the end the suffering of those you love most.