Actually, no, but that is not to say that I am on your side either. Frankly, I would like to see people like you genuinely debated without the rather gargoylish infantilism in this thread. Your premise obviously is flawed, and you have supplied your own evidence against it. News of the event obviously was reported.
So, the Israeli people collectively want to destroy America, and the American media is part of a conspiracy to cover this up for some reason. Right on, Razor.
Usually true when it involves a car chase, I guess…
Cite that the media suppress information related to Israel? Explanation why the media are in league with the evil Israelis?
Cite that the actions of a couple of dorks in a moving van have anything to do with the Israeli government?
‘The Israelis’. Funny, I seem to remember the Israeli government denouncing the attack… and seeing reports of a handful or ordinary citizens in Israel cheering the WTC attack. So… obviously, if those guys in Israel were happy about it, these guys from Israel must be part of the plot to blow it up!
Wait… Cite that Israelis, and not al-Qaida Arabs (mainly Saudi) or Mystical Iraqi Death Pixies blew up the WTC?
Or how 'bout an explanation why Israelis, by and large, would want to do nasty things to America?
Newsflash: I know a guy in Canada… in the Canadian military, in fact, who, when he heard about the attacks, said ‘Oh, it’s about time.’ So, obviously… OMG the Canucks are in on it TOO! The Royal Canadian Horse Artillery are gonna smash the statue of Lincoln with their bayonets! Or, maybe it was just a jerkish thing to say, and he has nothing to do with it and Canada ISN’T ‘masquerading as America’s ally’.
Nobody 'members it anymore, eh? Or… could it be, that the evidence suggested it was al-Qaida, so the cheering Israelis were probably just pricks? Or guys who got fired by some nasty boss on floor 53 of the north tower?
Ordinary Israeli citizens are not America’s ally! America’s ally is the Israeli government. Not all Israelis agree with the government’s positions. Not all Israelis like America. Not all Israelis want to destroy America.
But what you said there does make sense… The Israeli government plotting to destroy America IS pretty inconsistent with siding with America on almost everything, and getting loads of aid from America. I’m glad you pointed that out. Now I understand how unlikely it is that the Israeli government is covertly trying to destroy the USA.
Step 1: Some guys, here illegally, have an apartment with a TV.
Step 2: These guys are mad at the USA and it’s government for making it such a hassle to be here legally. Or had a grudge against someone working there. Or just plain hated American architecture. Or were just jerks.
Step 3: The WTC blows up.
Step 4: These guys see it on TV. Or in person, like a bazillion people in New York.
Step 5: They cheer! Dancing and Joy! Stupid, arrogant American government! It’s about time something happened to your citizens and your country! We, like so many people, can’t tell the difference between a government and the people of that country! Burn WTC!
And that’s how they knew what they were cheering for. You don’t have to have been part of the plot to be glad it happened. You don’t have to be a firefighter to be sad a house burned down, either.
Yeah, the media would hate a scandal.
Oh, yeah, 'cause the media is SOOO left-wing. Just like the government. That’s the problem, really. Too many liberals in there, not enough wild conspiracy theorists.
You should shine up your tinfoil hat a little and go teach them a lesson.
Razor, this theory of yours is a little… silly.
“Gargoylish infantilism”, huh? Well, if I’m being so accused, it’s a new one on me.
“Gargoylish infantilism”. Yeah, I kind of like it.
Will you concede that two tourists working illegally and possibly being involved in a moving company scam wouldn’t really be a nationwide story? If not that, what were these guys supposedly doing?
The state investigation is for reckless driving, evading arrest, littering and false identification. That sort of crime doesn’t even make local news except in a very small town. Besides, the Feds didn’t “swoop in” and take custody of the criminals, thereby thwarting the state investigation. The two bonded out on $10,000 and $500 bonds on their state charges, and were then turned over to Immigration. The county is likely relieved they bonded out, as it saved them the headache of housing, feeding, and prosecuting the two for relatively minor crimes when they’re just going to be deported anyway. Immigration doesn’t deport suspected terrorists, either.
ABC didn’t suppress it; they made this report:
Inappropriate behavior, but far from high fives and dancing. From the sound of it, they weren’t so much celebrating as they were unbecomingly nonchalant, as they themselves admitted:
Man. . .you just can’t let go and refuse to be happy until you’ve managed to make this into so very much more than it was, is or ever will be. Even in your fevered imaginings.
First things first, if these were really two nefarious evildoers as you have tried repeatedly to show, there is no way in hell that they would have been let out on $2500 & $5000 bails. Or are you ready to start claiming that this conspiracy claptrap includes the sheriff and judge in question? And I hesitate to speak for anyone else, but when I hear, “high speed chase” I’m inclined to think that speeds in excess of seventy miles per were reached. Which would make for a frightfully short-lived chase since it only covered 2 1/2 miles.
Y’see, these are some of the reasons that people chortle when they see that you have posted some new bit of tripe.
And has been pointed out to you, the government of Israel is in no way analogous to every Israeli citizen. And if you wanna be taken seriously, you might look into coming up with a cite and source that doesn’t sell videos that not only refer to conspiracy theories, but use the word “Conspiracy” so prominently in their titles.
And just because it can’t be hammered into your head often enough, the US wouldn’t deport a couple of people who are suspected terrorists. Not to mention that the lengths you go to to try and establish a link between the mainstream media and their nefarious covering up of anything that would show Israel in a bad light are ludicrous. I mean, have you never read the liberal handbook? We hate Israel. Hell, watch FOX news and listen to Bill O’Reilly. Sheesh!
Waste
Libertarian, while I welcome debate of the premise, I’m unclear as to what purpose it would serve. Having debated him at length in the hate crimes thread, it seems to me that Razorsharp is deliberately and eagerly dishonest in Great Debates threads. Deliberate dishonesty in a debate is fatal to the conversation, in my experience; arguing with a liar is an exercise in futility.
I’d much rather see folks ignore Razorsharp’s snide and incoherent innuendo than respond to it with insults; it’d be better to let it drop into obscurity. However, I don’t really see that debating his OPs is particularly helpful to anyone.
Nevertheless, if you do think it’d be helpful, I’d be interested to see you give it a go, see if you have a different experience with the lad than I had.
Daniel
Ok, we now know that there is nothing to this, but I’m still trying to concoct a terrorist scenario involving airplanes, a nuclear fuel plant, and a vial of something.
An airplane and a nuke plant, I see see a plot there. A suspcious vial and, say, a water plant, I can see that plot. But once you’ve got the airplane and the nuke plant in the mix, I’m at a loss to see how the tin foil types would get all hyped up over a vial. Doesn’t seem to add much to the “airplanes as missiles” thing.
Oh, right, they were Jews. Maybe the vial held those spooky spirits that came out of the Ark of the Covenant in the first Indiana Jones movie. That would kick ass.
Isn’t it obvious?
The fluid in the vial was an experimental “instant 747” mixture, which, when exposed to enough nuclear radiation, will expand into a full-sized airplane.
The men in the truck – that is, if indeed they were men… how do we know they weren’t hermaphrodites, or shapeshifting lizards?
Anyway, the individuals in the truck – er, well, they may have been two sprouts of an alien hive mind, which would mean they weren’t really individual.
Whoever or whatever was in the truck clearly intended to use nuclear fuel rods to expand their instant jet, then tow it to the flight school, where they would learn how to fly the plane. Finally, they obviously planned to crash the plane into IKEA’s headquarters, eliminating the mail-order furniture business and forcing consumers to hire them to move furniture from stores.
More than nine months after the 9/11 attacks, the ABC “news magazine”, 20/20, hosted by Barbara Walters and John Miller, gave the cover-up a booster shot.
ABC’s interview with the lady, referred to only as “Maria”, who witnessed the “suspicious” behavior, consisted of probably less than a minute of air-time. In this brief interview, Maria said, “They seemed to be taking a movie.” “The men were taking video or photos of themselves with the World Trade Center burning in the background.”
ABC reported that what struck Maria were the expressions on the men’s faces.
“They were like happy, you know … They didn’t look shocked to me. I thought it was very strange,” she said.
I think it’s strange too. Not expressions on faces, but the idea of the behavior of the suspects initially being described as “cries of joy and mockery”, is now aired as “They were like happy, you know…” I would like to have seen the expression on the janitor’s face when saw 20/20’s cutting-room floor.
(NOTE: 20/20 excerpts in quotes.)
Yeah, Sivan knows who the problem is.
Who in the world could think that the Israelis would have something to hide? All they did was just shut down the business and head back to Israel, leaving cutomers in the lurch and not even bothering to turn off the utilities. Why, that’s just standard practice, isn’t it?
Oh well, if that’s the case, then foreign nationals coming into the United States to spy is acceptable?
I don’t think so.
And of course, an Israeli would never consider spying on the United States, afterall, we’re allies.
“Stupid and ridiculous.”, “The story is simply false.”
I am reminded of Shakespear; “Thou dost protest too much”.
Okay, no evidence of pre-knowledge. That still does not excuse the behavior. The behavior was reprehensible and casts an unfavorable light on our most beloved “ally”. And it is equally reprehensible for our so-called “free press” to intentionally kill an obvious newsworthy story for the benefit of a foreign interest.
The FBI confiscated the suspects film and admitted that the suspects were smiling in the pictures, but 20/20 didn’t show it’s viewing audience any of the pictures or video. I suppose that ABC was prevented from showing the pictures for reasons of “national security”. Yeah, that’s it, “national security”.
The story closed with this telltale exchange:
Ah, at long last, we get to some truth. That is exactly what happened. ABC and 20/20, rather than objectively report a story, tried to “put an end to the controversy”.
USS Liberty
Media’s upper echelons predominately Jewish.
News that one of the two Israeli ‘movers’ belonged to that country’s political elite might have proven useful in the criminal investigation underway in rural North Carolina and Tennessee, where the two men led authorities on a high-speed chase in a rented moving van last weekend.
However, the investigation was halted Wednesday, after the men were released from Unicol County Jail to the custody of federal officials from the INS, where they face only a deportation hearing.
http://www.madcowprod.com
You know what I remember from the Israeli government that was really funny? Right after the attack, former Prime Minister Netanyahu addressed both houses of congress and uttered this perversion. “(paraphrase) The terrorists don’t hate America because of Israel, the hate Israel because of America.”
And then had the chutzpah to repeat “the big lie” to all of America on the network morning shows. And not one of the hosts dared to question those words.
Well, if they hate Israel because of America, then I’ve got a solution that will solve all of Israel’s problems.
Here is a link to what Benny actually said.
What you may be referring to:
Nothing about hating Israel because of America. But maybe the Zionist Occupation Government has blocked that part out?
Benjamin also said that established states have carte blanche as to what they do, in the name of fighting ‘terrorism’. Doesn’t it occur to him and others that the rebels and terrorists are fighting the established states in order to raise the cost of that ‘carte blanche’ to intolerable levels?
:dubious:
Much like the sage advice provided to Red Leader during the run on the Death Star, I implore you to ‘Stay on target’.
Speaking of “the Big Lie”:
Predominantly? More tin-foil cap nonsense better suited to be spewed at the SF site.
No, he repeated “the big lie” in this interview.
See, ZOG has even got you under their control.
Simply debate the post rather than the poster. That way, you needn’t worry over his tactics. Dishonesty may be fatal, but only to the dishonest poster’s argument. As I showed above, he has provided his own counter-example to his own premise. His argument therefore fails. There need be nothing further than the repetition of that single point. It’s over. His argument is defeated.
And repeated the “talking point” again in this interview with Britt Hume.
This falls under the catagory of “if you repeat a lie often enough,…”
That is, with the exception of those indigenous to the land.
Nice. Again you demonstrate that the foundation of your paranoia rests on treating denials as affirmations, turns of phrase as conspiracy, not to mention generally making stuff up. Netanyahu throughout the interview says things such as
and in the tiny quote you rip from the interview is in fact responding to a direct question asking whether the terrorists hate America because of its support for Israel. What do you expect him to say? “Yeah, it’s all our fault”?
Just because the incident was reported, does not make the primise flawed. The degree of reporting has much to do with the public’s perception.
The “Arab-looking men” that were celebrating the attack on the WTC was initially reported, and, I would say, generated much interest as to just who would be so callous as to be celebrating such a tragedy. Then, when the identities of the celebrants were discovered, the media then decided that a group of men celebrating the deaths of 3000 innocent people, “with cries of joy and mockery”, wasn’t as newsworthy.
From my own perspective, I truly believe that if the celebrants had been found to be Arabic, as originally thought, the event would have garnered more media exposure.
[hijack]Now, as for the thread that stained LHoD’s knickers, the same premise was put forth. When the assault on Supreme Court Justice David Souter was reported, the race of his assailants was not mentioned, I then made the prediction that the attackers were of a minority, and the media deliberately withheld that information to keep the public’s perception in line with the politically-correct party line that it is minorities that are the victims of interracial crime and whites as the prepetrators. As an example, I said that if Justice Thomas had been assaulted by several white youths, the race of his attackers would have been mentioned just to keep the public’s perception in tune with the party line.
As another example of media bias , I compared the coverage of the murders comitted by Reginald and Johnathan Carr with the James Byrd dragging death. Yes, both were reported, but one was used as a cause celebre, the other virtually ignored.
This sent LHoD and his compatriots into a hissy-fit, demanding that I prove that both instances were hate crimes, when the issue was how the media reports interracial crime. And now he is over here calling me a liar and being critical of my debating tactics.[/hijack]
No they would not. The media has refrained from providing the race of either the assailant or the victim in initial stories for years. The only exceptions are those such as the Byrd murder in which the explicit motive was racial hatred.
Run through the crime reports of any newspaper or TV news show for a month. How many mention any race (victim or perpetrator)? Throughout the early part of the 20th century, the media reported the race of a victim or perpetrator only when a person was not white. All they did was drop that practice of reporting race, at all, until race is shown to be germain to the crime. If one has a desperate need to demonize some group because of their race, this is probably a distressing trend. However, to most of us, the race of either the assailant or victim is not really relevant. Mr. Byrd’s murder was prompted by the racial attitudes of his assailants. The Carr brothers were motivated by greed and sadism. Race bears on the actions of John William King and his buddies. No evidence has ever been presented that the Carr brothers even cared about race. (Throughout the entire multiple hour event and the two robberies that preceded it, the only racial comment reported by any victim was a single line in which one of the Carr brothers asked a woman if she had ever “been with” a black man.)
I would be interested in seeing any identification of an assailant as “white” in the last month (other than cases where a description is provided for an as yet uncaptured suspect). Can you actually find any examples in the mainstream media?