I recently took spin training in a Cessna 152. http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=154383&highlight=spin
The plane I usually fly, a Piper Warrior, has a placard saying intentional spins are prohibited. However, I know that all GA airplanes have to demonstrate recovery from a 3-turn spin when they are certified.
My question is, what would happen if I put the Warrior into a spin? Would it be harder to recover? If so, in what way? Has anyone ever been in this situation?
I’m trying to remember the regs from a 10-year old memory, but as I recall, the difference between a plane that is certified for spins and one that isn’t is the amount of revolutions allowed before recovery, and how many turns it takes to recover.
For example, a Grumman AA1 is certifiable because it can recover from the minimum number of turns within a turn and a half. But it’s not certificated for intentional spins because if you let the spin fully develop, which may take six turns or more, the spin can go flat, and be unrecoverable. So it’s ‘spin safe’ for accidental spins where anti-spin inputs are applied immediately, but it’s not safe for spin training where you may stay in the spin for an indeterminate number of rotations.
Another problem with a 4-seat airplane like a Warrior is that the Cg range is bigger, and spins can be unrecoverable with an aft-Cg.
My understanding is that there are two sorts of GA planes declared “not legal for spins”: those that the manufacturer didn’t bother to test beyond the minimum, so if you do spin it you’re playing test pilot; and those that were tested and found dangerous to be in a spin.
I’d be surprised if someone hadn’t spun a Warrior at least by accident, and they’ve probably flipped inverted, too. I don’t know what the results would be, though.
In addition to the CG problem - does the Warrior have enough rudder authority to stop the rotation of a spin?
Good question. The particular aircraft I fly has a rudder linkage to the ailerons. This makes it difficult to cross control, and hard to slip. So I’m not sure about that.
As you say, I’m sure it’s been done. But I’ll have to find somebody to tell me about it because I’m sure not going to try.
The Warrior has enough rudder, to stop the spin, but probably not within the turn-and-a-half that is required by the regs. (I think it’s a turn and a half after three turns).
I seem to recall that Warriors could be spun with only two people in the plane, at least at one time. But I could be wrong about that.
With just two in the plane that puts it into the “utility” category. I’ve run into people who insist that “utility” means it’s OK to spin but that’s not always true - the fact that the Warrior is not authorized for spins yet can fly as “utility” is proof of that.
I’ve also heard that because there is a spin recovery procedure in the POH it must be OK - nevermind that same POH states multiple times that it is NOT OK to spin that plane.
Certainly, if I had to spin a Warrior I’d prefer to do it when loaded in the “utility” range, than than the “normal”.
Now, when it comes to C150’s - although placarded against spins with the flaps down you CAN still spin one. I did so by accident once, with all 40 degrees of flaps in (which is exactly why you practice stalls at decently high altitudes). There was a significant delay in recovery as compared to spins without flaps. (Just for the record - with my oops we never got as far as a fully developed spin. YMMV please do not try this at home.) Which makes sense when you think about it - any high wing Cessna pilot will tell you those flaps decrease rudder authority when used over 20 degrees, and it’s the rudder that gets you out of the spin, so… if this happens to you, slam that flap switch into the “retract” position as soon as possible.
Due to flap position, this is much less likely to be an issue in the Warrior. But it’s an illustration of how something fairly subtle can significantly affect handling out on the edge of the envelope.