This topic started me thinking about my remaining years. I just turned 57. I am single (divorced.) I have been working continuously in the IT field for over 30 years. I have been contributing to my 401(k) all along and it’s fairly sizeable (I realize this number is different for everyone.) I also have an IRA that I manage myself that is much smaller than the 401(k), but not insignificant. By some luck and previous experience, the home I am paying off is worth about 2.5 times what I paid for it. I refinanced when the rates were good (<2.75%) and I have no debt other than my mortgage. So, all and all, I think I am doing OK as far as my finances.
If I wanted to retire in a few years I could probably sustain myself into my 80s. But for what? Just to exist? I know I am venturing off into personal opinion here, but I guess my essential question is: would I rather enjoy the years I have left as a relatively-young, mobile person or scrimp to extend my life as long as possible even if it’s just existing?
I’m not looking for anyone to answer this for me. I guess I’m looking for other people’s outlooks. How do you want to grow old?
For me, I plan to grow old walking around leisurely and browsing cafes, museums, bookstores, flying or cruising to some locations, etc. I even already have most of the plans sort of written down by now.
The reason such a retirement plan is so lazy, though, is because I don’t expect to have much money by then, so it’s all I can afford. I’d be lucky to be drawing the equivalent of $30,000 a year by then in today’s dollars. So a quiet existence it is.
If I had, hypothetically, huge money, though, my retirement plan would be far more aggressive and maybe even no retirement at all: I’d want to be a movie director and very active philanthropist. I’d be flooring the gas pedal of life til I die. Even if I had, say, $10 million, I’d still be super proactive. So all my retirement plans are scaled up or down, according to how much money I expect to have. I’m aggressive by nature, but passive due to financial reality.
If you don’t mind me asking, and this can be hypothetical, what do you consider to be “much money”? I’m trying to understand what type of lifestyle I can expect with my projected retirement income.
For me, I’d consider anything above, say, $70,000 per year to be “much money.” But that’s because most of my retirement planning involves moving to Taiwan (where I have dual residency.) Since the cost of living there is much lower than America’s, it would be like someone drawing $120,000 per year in retirement in America, which would be quite comfy indeed.
If I had to remain in America for my whole retirement, then I think something like six figures or above per year would be “much money” since I expect inflation to remain serious for quite a long time to come.
I want to be able to do everything I do now, just without having to work. Sure, I will be slower and what-not, but as long as I can still do what I love I will be okay. I can see myself picking up a part-time job and volunteering a lot more than I do now, to fill-in some time and keep busy, too.
As for money, it seems no matter how well someone has prepared for retirement, like the OP, it will never be enough for professional advisors - just do the best you can along the way and don’t oversweat it. You gotta live life for today while responsibly planning for the future.
Your last sentence is pretty much the gist of my question. I’ve worked my whole life and have been fairly responsible about saving. I would rather really enjoy myself with the years I have left than just extend my life as long as possible.
The two options (enjoying yourself now, versus living a long time) aren’t mutually exclusive.
There’s a lot to be said for doing what you can while you are still physically able, but what if you use your resources to do that, and run out of money, and don’t die? I’m going with the assumption that you don’t plan to off yourself if you run out of funds.
Does having fun now somehow mean your lifespan is decreased? Well, for some definitions of “fun”, it might (drugs, dangerous activities etc.) but it’s not something you can count on.
I would certainly prefer to enjoy my “younger” years, than to live to 90, bored out of my gourd. I have a stupid idea that I’ll make it to age 75 - the age at which both of my parents died, though of causes that will never affect me (no prostate, no history of smoking). I’ve had other relatives last a fair bit longer, though, so I need to be prepared for the possibility of making it well into my 80s. And I’d rather not be impoverished.
So our plan is to work as long as we can, saving the whole time, and hopefully have a few years to have fun before our carcasses give up the ghost and we’re stuck in a rocking chair 24/7.
One of those pieces of retirement advice “they” all say is to PLAN on extra expenditures those first few years, because you’ll have the time and energy then. We’re trying to go with that approach.
Personally, I feel like 80 would be plenty if I could enjoy it. I don’t have plans to off myself as the money runs out, but a Thelma and Louise-style ending has a certain appeal… Another factor is that I am single, and while I don’t discount the idea of finding a partner to spend my twilight years with, it’s not something I’m counting on either.
I plan on living in good health without disability for a long time. I’ve no current plans to retire anytime soon (currently 64) but could imagine slowing down? Traveling a bit. Learning a variety of things I don’t currently know how to do, from a playing a musical instrument to pottery to playing tennis.
(I have invested in exercise and nutrition to be able give myself the best odds of good function until the end. Then hopefully a quick end. It helps that I find my exercise to be playtime.)
OP - what do you want to do now, that you don’t envision being able to do in your late 60s-70s?
I agree very much to the extent that you cannot guarantee tomorrow. So if there is something you REALLY want to do, see if you can do it sooner rather than putting it off to some indefinite future.
Just over the past couple of years, in my early 60s, I’ve started experiencing some arthritis which has really slowed me down. Really has had me rethinking what I’ll be able to do for how long. For example, I’ve skied my last last spring, and I don’t imagine playing tennis.
My 2 main interests are golf and music, so I should be able to continue with those up til my early 80s. I even started playing clawhammer banjo a couple of years ago, so that when I’m too old to haul my upright bass around, I’ll have a more portable instrument that I won’t suck at. I’m not big on expensive travel, but I could imagine some more driving trips.
I have a friend of the same age who’s always asking me about my “number” - ya know, the dollar figure one needs to hit in order to retire. He has a spreadsheet, he tells me, that he maintains to keep track of progress toward his “number”, and is appalled that I do not know my “number.” It’s like when he hits his “number” a bell will go off like at the NYSE (ding-ding-ding-ding…) and confetti will fall from the sky and he can safely retire. Mean time he does not take many trips, smokes, and works all the time (altho I think at this point his seniority makes his job not too demanding). I asked him what he plans to do when he retires - deer in the headlights. He’s too focused on his “number.”
I tell him I am putting a fair chunk of money into long-term savings, and have for years. Plus I have a small inheritance I have not touched and has grown okay, plus my 401k, pension, and SS to pay for stuff when I stop working at my current, career-type job. I do like to travel and since I am still working I can afford it without dipping into my long-tern savings, and I want to do it while the body is still in decent shape. Both my kids are thru college and my house is almost paid-off - so now is a perfect time to enjoy life while I am still working and earning money - rather than waiting until some future date when my “number” is right.
The equation might change if there are grandkids I want to be there for. But I have no desire to be infirm or lose my mind. I’ve been active and independent my whole life. Groovy if I can make it snowboarding until eligible to get the free season pass at 80, but not planning on it nor saving for that long. That said, I do want to finish out the decade and get the half priced pass at 70.
My step father ended his pathetic life a nursing home, unable to get out of his chair, only could understand how to turn on and turn off the TV but not change the channel, needed to press the alert button to help go to the bathroom, wore a diaper for the frequent times it was needed, ad naueum. The big challenge is being on the downhill slope and doing something about it before becoming unable to do something about it.
I retired at 57, and am now 61. Barring some unlikely financial disaster, I’ll never outlive my money. Here’s the planning that got me where I am now, in 3 parts.
TIME. Figure out what you’ll do to fill your time after retirement. If you’re content to spend it on the couch watching TV, that’s super cheap because you already have a house and a TV, and being that sedentary will knock years off your lifespan, so you’ll be less likely to outlast your savings. More likely, you have hobbies and other leisure activities now, and will have more time for them after retirement. Can that leisure time be doubled without it becoming tiresome? How much more traveling will you want to do? If you think you might have too much time on your hands, consider post-retirement part time job or volunteerism. Ideally, that job will be low-stress, will involve socializing with coworkers or the public, and will require some physical activity. I work around 15 hrs/week at a local hardware store and it’s the best job I’ve ever had.
MONEY. Keep investing and saving. If possible, max out your 401k and Roth contributions.
Figure out what your living expenses are in an average year. Don’t forget big ticket items like having to replace a car every X years. Then estimate how much of the budget is spent on recreation. Double or triple that portion. Don’t include estimated income from a part time job—that job is for your physical and emotional health, and any $ from it is just icing on the cake, or an emergency fund. Now you have a dollar figure for part 3:
ADVICE. Find a financial advisor that is recommended by people you know and trust, and that has been around for many years. Give them your retirement budget, the amount you have saved so far, and ask them when you can retire.
Some really great discussion here, so thanks! My primary hobbies are reading and cooking, so I’m not too worried about not being able to do them as I grow older. Travel is probably my biggest desire. I have been able to travel some, but always within the confines of my vacation limits. I would love to be able to spend more time at a more leisurely pace on trips, rather than rushing to fit things in before having to get back to work.
One option I need to explore more is remote work. I do IT work from home and I know I can travel within the US and do my job while exploring new places. I need to talk to my boss about doing that while international. That would be ideal. Lots of logistics to work out but maybe not impossible.
The scenario China_Guy mentions with his step father is exactly what I want to avoid.
i want to avoid that as well, but it’s not really a choice between enjoying yourself vs extending your life as long as possible. Working longer and spending less in early retirement is not going to extend your life or prevent infirmity and having fun and spending money will not shorten it or cause infirmity. However, retiring while you are still capable of working does prevent one not uncommon outcome , which is not really having any retirement at all. If you become disabled at 50, before you expected to retire, there’s nothing really you could have done about it. But I’ve known far too many people who kept working until 70,75 or even past 80 who ended up having no retirement at all. Not because they loved their job so much they never wanted to stop working. Not because they couldn’t afford to retire. It’s because they kept working to accumulate as much money as possible and assumed they would be the relatively healthy 75 or 80 year old who can still travel and do everything they enjoy. And then they weren’t. They ended up being the 70 year old who can’t walk two blocks or the 75 year old who needs adult diapers or the 80 year old who gets confused too easily to travel on their own. That was my biggest fear (and why I’m nagging my husband to retire). It would be bad enough to end up in a nursing home unable to change the channel - but it would be way worse if I ended up there after having a stroke while I was still working at 75.
I have a sort of inchoate feeling that the optimum would be to prepare so that you can live life to the fullest until about 75, and then plan on some degree of age-related disability that’ll cramp your style in some fashion.
So really the goal as I see it would be to optimize your saving to maximize those first ten years post-working, while still preparing for whatever comes after (long term care insurance, etc…)
The nightmare scenario for me would be to plan to live to 80, but somehow manage to live to 90 or more, and run out of money.
50s seems too young to retire to me (I’m 51). Then again, I’m not exactly breaking rocks in the hot sun. Most of my job is using my 25+ years of corporate experience to advise companies on “management shit”.
I’ve had plenty of periods in my career where I’ve had stretches of “idle time”. I don’t feel like I need decades of it at the moment.
But the question is really “what to do during retirement?”
I guess for my role model for “retirement” I look at my dad who just turned 80. Still in good shape mentally and physically. Had a successful career working for the same Fortune 500 company. He’s a widower (Mom passed away about ten years ago) but he’s actively dating. Still lives in the house I grew up in. Probably more house than he needs, but it’s good when my brother and I show up with our families. He lives midway between me in NY/NJ and my brother in Boston so we get to hang out pretty regularly with all the grandkids.
My dad has a lot of friends and is always travelling around, often with his sisters (also retired). He’s active in sports. Doesn’t smoke or drink more than an occasional glass of wine when going out to dinner.
My in-laws OTOH, their retired life seems utterly boring to me. But they seem content in their little world out in the country. They have their routines and set of places they go and people they visit. And I think they like it that way because that’s how they are. They don’t have a lot of money, aren’t very mobile, and don’t seem to have much interest in doing anything or going anywhere new. I would hate to live like that, but that’s just me.
This was almost my father. He retired at 72.5 years old. He died at 75. So, a bit over 2 years, but he really never did anything with his retirement. He and my mother lived very separate lives, basically he was at one end of the house watching TV while she was at the other end, or out and about (she was 10 years younger).
That’s my subconscious plan. I “joke” that I only expect to make it to 75 (both parents died at that age, though not of causes I need to worry about).
I’ve also basically decided that my current project will be my last. The contract is up for renewal right about the time I turn 65. If we win the recompete, I’ll stay on another year or so. If not, buh-bye. It’s not quite my full retirement age for Social Security, but we can figure that out if it happens.