In 15+ years I think she raised issues maybe twice. Once when a male student kept waiting for her after class and trying to walk her to her car in a manner that made her uncomfortable, and another instance in which two girls were very aggressively disrespectful. With the girls, after they were in the dean’s office for less than 10 minutes, the dean threw them out and told my wife she didn’t know how my wife put up with them for some long.
Just to say, my wife isn’t someone to go crying to the dean/security over every little perceived slight.
Oh, and it does sorta suck that the college allows just anyone to take her class with no pre-requisites. I mean, it seems they are willing to accept tuition money from just about anyone, with no consideration of whether or not they have the ability to understand the concepts in business law. It isn’t rocket science, but neither is it the easiest class offered. And you can only dumb it down so much before you aren’t teaching anything of value.
When I was a teacher in Bulgaria, there were a few times I wished I could call the police on some students. They weren’t MY students (I was an elementary school teacher, these kids were older), though, I didn’t know their names and I am sure that by the time the police would have shown up they would have been long gone. I lived in a very, very small town and was the only foreigner, and they would come to my house and scream epithets at me. It wasn’t personal at all, it was just stupid drunk teenagers trying to harass the only person in town they haven’t known their entire lives. But I have to say I wasn’t a fan. Once it happened in broad daylight, so I whipped out my camera and took some pictures of them before they ran away, then went to their school and showed them to their administration. I don’t know what kind of punishment they received. (Probably nothing.)
Towards the end of my time in Bulgaria, there was a scandal when a high school student physically attacked a teacher and the whole thing was recorded by another student with his cell phone camera. The video was shown ad nauseum on the news. It made me sick to my stomach to watch, but I have to say I wasn’t surprised. Then the kid was expelled from school and his parents sued. Awesome.
Dinsdale, the question of how to cope with students who have learning disabilities and behavioral issues has come up recently on the RateYourStudents blog. It’s a site where academics (anonymously) talk about some of the problems they face in their jobs.
Here’s the latest entry on the issue. Follow the links at the top of that page for the earlier parts of the discussion.
ETA: So far, i’ve been lucky enough not to have any problems in this area. I’ve had a couple of mildly sullen students, but the worst they ever did was make clear that they weren’t interested in participating in class discussion. I’ve had a few students who needed small accommodations for disabilities, but it was generally nothing more than asking another student to share notes, or something similar.
The fact that situations like the one your wife faced happen in the first place is bad enough; the complete lack of support from the institution is inexcusable.
I have several questions, but here’s the big one. Why did she try to hand the paper back? Why not just assign him a zero and leave it up to him to ask why if he’s so inclined?
The assignment was to be completed on a separate piece fo paper. She assumed he had mistakenly handed in the assignment she had handed out and on which he had vented his opinion, and kept the completed portion.
Heck, he coupld have used the assignent paper to scrawl a note to a friend or something. She was giving him the benefit of the doubt - did not expect his response.
She’s grading assignments right now. That’s a room you don’t want to go into! In a bit, I’ll slip in a glass of wine . . .
FWIW, I have learning disabilities and emotional issues. I send a paper to each new professor at the beginning of the term explaining my issues, coping stratagies, and learning preferences. So far they’ve all been gracious and polite. I have had public meltdowns- the type where I burst out crying and run out of the class- but I hope I’ve never scared or disrespected a teacher like you guys are talking about. I have had people call security on me (especially during my first year), but I think they were more worried about what I might do to myself than other people.
Dude, that is so cool of you. And I guarantee such an approach would go just fine with my wife. The problem is if you don’t let the instructor know, they have no way of distinguishing you from the stoners, lazy, stupid, unmotivated, cheaters . . . I don’t want to suggest that these are a majority of any class, but some of them are present in every class.
It can be frustrating, because she is supposed to be teaching college level classes which should transfer to 4-year colleges. So there has to be some level of intellectual rigor. But there are no pre-reqs, so she regularly gets students who do not appear intellectually and/or emotionally capable of handling the assigned work.
She is very happy to work with someone who has special needs and lets her know up front. But she is NOT willing to put in extra effort unpredictably after the fact when a student decides they are unable/unwilling to comply with a particular assignment. With forewarning, provisions can be made. But after the fact, it is much more of a hassle which - speaking plainly - she isn’t paid well enough to deal with.
After class yesterday (the first class since the incident) my wife got a call from the dean asking how it had gone. (She remembers that when they talked there was some mention of discussing the student/situation after the next class, but given my wife’s impression of dean’s attitude, she pretty much figured she’d just figure out how to deal with this student for the rest of the semester.) My wife said the student appeared cocky, but was not outwardly disruptive or disrespectful. Perhaps she was simply noticing him more that she had before.
To my wife’s surprise, the dean suggested that my wife initiate disciplinary proceedings. Well, first she suggested that my wife talk to the student about it, but my wife said she had no interest in doing so. (Oh, and correction, the paper said “F OFF”, rather than “F YOU”.) So the dean said if my wife simply asked them to initiate discipline, the student would have to talk to the dean. And in order to be allowed to continue taking the class, he would have to apologize to my wife, and assure that nothing similar would recur. If he refused or acted up again, he would be withdrawn from the class.
Since the dean appeared to want it, and said it wouldn’t take any more action by my wife, she said “Sure, go ahead.” Immediately after they hung up, my wife got a call from the dean’s assistant/secretary, asking my wife to write up an e-mail describing what had happened. So much for it not requiring anything else! So she wrote and sent the e-mail, and we’ll see what happens next.
I’ve always insisted that children apologize for overt disrespect and I do this for their sake. I ran into a problem with some neighborhood kids years ago and tracked them down and demanded an apology in front of their parents. It really seamed to help the child. IMO everybody (who isn’t crazy) knows what is right and resolving a personal wrong goes a long way toward positive self-esteem.
Stories like this is one of the reasons I didn’t go into teaching after getting out of the Navy.
I taught at a military school for seven years. In all that time, I had exactly one student (out of 500+) who acted disrespectfully to me (i.e. openly defying my authority in the classroom). Even more surprising was the fact that he did not directly enter the school as a prior civilian. Instead, he was an enlisted serviceman who had gone through boot camp and served in the fleet.
It took me a couple of seconds to recover my composure at being spoken to in such a manner by an enlisted student–just because I was so surprised–but I reacted quickly after that. I told the student to go out in the hall and to wait for me. I then proceeded to bring him to attention while I told him in no uncertain terms that his behavior was unacceptable. I then left him out in the hall standing at attention until class was over. After class was over, I told him to report to his company commander and explain to him exactly what had happened. Following my report, he was restricted to the base for the rest of the school year (about 2 months), prohibited from attending the graduation ceremony, and told that if he acted up again, he would be immediately expelled and sent back to the fleet.
I don’t suppose that instructors have such control over their students in the civilian world.
It depends on the college (or university, for that matter) and the administrators.
At my CC, they encourage us to dismiss disruptive students from class, report the plagiarists and cheaters, not put up with bullying and threats, etc. Thank goodness. At the CC and uni where I’d worked before, the admins didn’t have nearly as much of a spine.
My best friend’s mom is a high school special ed teacher. She works more with the emotionally disturbed, dyslexics, Asperger’s kids, etc. (as opposed to the down syndrome, heavily autistic, etc.). About a year and a half ago, she came home from grocery shopping and in spray paint on her drive way, one of her students had written (this is verbatim how he spelled it) “Fuck you bich!!” She called the cops, for fear he might be hiding in the bushes or something of the like (she didn’t know exactly who it was, but had a good idea). They came, checked out the house and it was fine. The next day at school, she had to talk to the administrators because the police report was filed. At first, they said something like “we want this kid to be able to learn in your class and not feel threatened or intimidated, so please do not press charges.”
She laughed, said something like “I want to be able to teach in my class and not feel threatened or intimidated.” The kid that she thought was responsible later was caught spray painting her house. (He was in the process of writing “stupid bitch”… or maybe he hadn’t learned how to spell that word yet and was going to write “bich”… but anyway.) When they came home, they saw him, parked down the block, turned off the lights and called the cops. He was found to have a knife and admitted that he was thinking of hurting her.
Why would he do this? He didn’t like the book they were reading in class. He thought it was boring. They were reading mark Tom Sawyer.
Don’t mean to go too off topic here, but robby was my teacher once upon a time, and yes, this would have been a rarity to have behold as he was an excellent and engaging instructor who commanded respect yet still made the class at ease and eager to learn!
Took me a while to find him, but here he is! (Sir, going to send you a PM!)
Side note: he introduced me to the Straight Dope one night, though this isn’t the same '01 account from back then since I forgot the password oh so very long ago.
When I went through Navy boot camp in ‘99, we had daily training in a classroom setting. You know you’ve seen it all when you see an unstable individual suffer a mental breakdown fueled by a drug withdrawal. This individual, a 6’6, burly looking fella (though didn’t seem all too bright to begin with) stood up during the middle of a lecture and went Frankenstein. To be honest, the moment was scary. The instructor was a 4’10’’ 2nd class petty officer. She freaked out and ran from the room to get help. The neat part was that the instructors taught with a headset mic - yeah, she left hers and we could very clearly hear her screams and pleas for help during the whole incident. I’ll never forget that.
While I agree with this method – being shamed by an adult and afraid of getting n (non-violent) trouble with parents can be the strongest deterrent against delinquency, IMHO – the trick is having their parents actually approve of it. You know, instead of grabbing their precious and accusing you of lying, wondering why everyone seems to be against their baby, then buying him a pizza.
Thanks for the compliment, Yesterdog! It’s always neat to hear from former students. I think that you’re the only one I’ve ever heard from here on the SDMB.
And this is exactly why you don’t let this kind of behavior go unchallenged. Administrators who aren’t trained to deal with this are not helping the student.
So the dean sends the kid a letter, telling him of the need to see her, apologize to my wife, etc. BUT - the letter doesn’t specify that the kid cannot return to the classroom until he does all that. So he simply shows up the other day (totally baked for a 9:30 a.m. class BTW.)
Afterwards, my wife called the dean, who says she will send another letter spelling it out. Putting a copy in my wife’s mailbox, which she is supposed to hand him this morning if he tries to come to class. Like she REALLY wants to be in that position. And if he refuses to leave?
Should be a fun day! :rolleyes: I asked her if I could come along and kick the twerp’s ass, but for some reason she declined my chivalrous offer . . .
I went to Catholic grammar school (run and staffed by an order call the Gray Nuns of the Sacred Heart) and a Catholic high school (run and staffed by Jesuits).
Yes, the oldest, smallest nun was entirely capable of handling anything that came her way, and would never be intimidated by any student. But there’s a world of difference between the Catholic school system in my day and public (and, for all I know, Catholic) schools today.
We all grew up in a culture that invested nuns and priests with enormous authority. It would have been unthinkable for even the worst-behaved student to mouth off to, much less get physically intimidating or even violent with, a nun or a priest. It wasn’t just that the nuns were fearless, it was that they had the authority of the whole culture behind them, and they knew it.
So she wrote and sent the e-mail, and we’ll see what happens next.