Still coming to class smelling like pot huh?? Revisited...

In My Humble Opinion
1

Ok This is the second time I have posted my dilema about a certain student who routinely comes to class really burnt. Red eyes, no drive to even raise his hand, and never ever participates unless I call on him.

Last time I posted this problem, I said I would speak to him. In a nut shell my dilema is that I understand this is college, I understand people will smoke a little grass. But the rountinely coming to class stoned is really starting to bother me…again!

I have been lenient with this kid, because I was a chimney in college. But I drew the line with smoking before morning classes. That was a no no.

This kid comes to my 10:30 class and can barely see. The only people who sit next to him are the ones that just had a session with him. But they at least comment on things in class and participate.

It has come down to him being forced to drop the class late, and take it either over summer session or at night. He has a solid D grade in the class and just to stay in school he needs to keep a c + average. If I let him go he can at least stay in school. I think that would be the best thing to do. But I am not sure. I can not make the kid stop smoking before my class, and I hesitate to pull him aside again because of he’s supposed to be acting like he wants to be in my class. It’s Psych Lit, not exactly a difficult class here. Read a little Flannery O’Connor, Chuck MacKay, and come to class prepared to talk about it. UUUHHGG!!!

Any one have any ideas… I’d like to hear from those in school now if possible. It seems there is a large population of college students already on the boards…

2

Wow. Cool. tee hee hee
But seriously, what would you do if a student showed up drunk in your class every morning?

3

I’m a college student. I know it’s illegal, but I think I have the right to get stoned if I want to (though, FWIW, I don’t do drugs anymore). I paid a lot of hard-earned money to go to school. I know what’s expected of me. I wouldn’t want a teacher pestering me about my activities outside of class. I’m also smart enough to know what’s expected of me in class–as is everyone else in college. I would be angry if I got a bad grade just because I did drugs. On the other hand, it would be perfectly acceptable for an instructor to give me a bad grade because I failed to do my work. I believe my school should give me every opportunity to flunk out if that’s what I want to do.

Really, this guy’s an adult, right? Old enough to vote, buy porn, and die for his country? Give him one last warning, and if he blows it, well, it’s not like he wasn’t warned. Save the time and energy you’d spend on this kid for somebody who both wants and needs help.

Still, it’s very cool that you seem to care about this guy’s welfare.

4

I’m not in school, but, imo, letting him pass isn’t going to do him any favours in life. It seems to me it would just give him the idea that his behaviour is acceptable and that he can do nothing and coast by. That is NOT going to work in the “real world.”

I’d let him know there’s a serious problem and leave it to him to take responsibility for himself and shape up. It isn’t fair to him (or to your other students!) if you pass him through without his having done the work.

5

ShibbOleth - that would be more disturbing. Especially at 10:30 in the AM. And I think most people knwo there is a major difference between the effects of smoking grass and getting drunk all the time. If the former were legal, that would be the preferred method of intoxication with lest side effects. However it can run your life, and I am not condoning massive consumption of the weed.

Also, I am a fair man, I give everyone their right to do to themselves what they please. But having spoken to this guy in a very discreet manner I feel he has taken advantage of my niceness a little too much. Look I’m only 33, I know what he’s going through, but I also knew where to draw the line… I think one more talking to and thats it…

6

So his options are:

Drop the class and stay in school, or

Stay in and (probably) get kicked out of school for a low GPA?
Hm…

Does he realise this? I’d say, if you feel up to it, talk to him and let him know/remind him of his need to get a C+ to stay in school, then suggest that he drop the class. Then, if he stays and fails, you don’t need to feel guilty about it.

7

Have you talked to him about it? If not, I would. Go up to him after class and ask him a lot of questions, then point blank ask him if he’s high, before asking if he’s high, remind him of the college rules: At my college if you were caught with drugs you could be kicked out (AFAIK).
Hopefully he will be bright enough to lie, or to say he won’t do it again. In either case I think he will be unnerved to the point that he won’t come into class stoned again…hopefully…

8

You certainly wouldn’t be doing him any favors letting him coast. I’m not particularly uptight and agree college is the appropraite time for experimentation but thouroghly baked before 10:30 every day is excessive. You’ve already spoken to him once. If you really feel you must give him yet another chance be very firm. Just tell him “you have a D in this class.” and tell him what he has to do bring it up and stick to it. He might just not be ready - I wasn’t.

Mephisto - I agree that what goes on outside a class isn’t the professor’s concernunless it affects the student’s calss participation and performance.

9

Since you are talking about a college instead of a high school, I think there are only really two choices.

You can try to make a difference in this individual’s life (which you already have) and warn him of the consequences.

Or, you can stand by and watch him mess up on his own.

I think the former is the better choice. He will probably view it as “authority”, but will see it differently when he is removed from the situation. However, whichever step you desire to take, he does not deserve to be graded as a result of his habits. If his habits lead him to a flunking grade, then so be it.

I think the real question here is this: can you grade this student objectively?

10

I don’t understand, has he asked to drop? Are you asking us whether you should give him permission? Or else force him to stay, flunk, and leave school.

If so, I say let him drop.

He’s paying for the tuition. Let him waste his (or his parents’) $ if he wishes to. As long as he isn’t disturbing the rest of the class, I’m not sure why you care.

On one hand, I’d say it’s nice that you give a shit about this kid. But OTOH, I’d say your efforts might be better spent on the kids who actually want to get an education.

11

Your answers are most helpful. To clarify a point, Add Drop period is waay past due. So he actually has three options. He can not show up for the rest of the semester, and take an incomplete which goes on his record. Or I can formally recommend he leave the class and asert a faculty initiated drop, where he just loses the credit he woudl have earned, but stays in school. Or Let him coast and take what ever grade he gets. Which may drop his cumulative average below what he needs to stay in school. Most likely scenerio is I will drop him, he will be put on academic probation for the fall semester and he will have all that time to get back on track.
He is a sophomore, and the only reason I am concerned is that I went down a road parallel to his and I turned myself around, on my own. He needs to know that he has the capability to do this on his own…
I am meeting his academic advisor - a good friend of mine - in a few minutes to go out for a beer. I’ll talk to him about it and see what he thinks.
The school I teach at has an honor code that every student must sign before they come here. This means that if they get caught breaking it, i.e. plagiarism, getting arrested, having a gun, dealing drugs… - get the picture - they are out. This particular students family has a lot of money and he thinks he can slide on by without putting forth any effort. This is not the case. Not in my class. But I remain true to my value system and will give him the benefit of the doubt. I must say I just need more imput to know I am making the right decision… dropping him, and letting himself pick his ass up… That way nothing stays on his permanent record, and he can save some face, if he can pick himself up.

12

I like it… here’s another option, though… can he take the class Pass/Fail (S/U)? That way, he can still go thru the class, take the equivalent of S (which could be a D?), but still it won’t count for his GPA and he’ll be able to stay in school.

Good luck, you seem like a cool intructor. :slight_smile:

13

I think your concern reflects well upon you as an instructor, but I personally think you should treat this guy as an adult, and let him sink or swim as he chooses. If you generally let other students drop your class after the deadline, go ahead and let him drop. If you generally don’t, don’t make an exception for him. He’s responsible for his grades, and for the consequences of bad grades, not you. It’s clear he’s made no effort to get good enough grades to stay in school, so if he fails out, that’s not your fault.

14

Phlosphr: As a serious head, I think you should let him take his own medicine; he needs to learn sometime that Mommy and Daddy can’t buy him everything. You yourself said that this is not that hard a class. Frankly, based on my own experiences, if I had come to class stoned, your bitch would have been stopping me from talking about literature. I also presume that if he wants to kick it into high gear, he can still pull a C for the course.

Also, I think you have to ask yourself: are you being fair to your other students, including those who might not have an aptitude for literature and those who are shy? I was not a good student in college, but I never expected any instructor to do anything for me that they would not do for another student.

It speaks well for you that you’re so concerned, but he has to grow up sometime.

15

I agree with those who have commented that you oughtn’t cut this kid any more or less slack than you would any other kid, despite the fact that you can recognise a bit of your college-aged self in him.

If you failed to report to an admin that you suspected the kid came to class stoned, would that mean your job, or are the rules such that more than suspicion (i.e. possession) is needed to kick a student?

I’d simply say this to the kid, re: his academic lack of performance:

"I’ve commented to you before, but I’m gonna give you a crystal-clear heads-up, m’kay?

"Your performance in my class has, thus far, earned you a ‘D’. If you continue like this, you won’t earn the ‘C+’ average you need in order to keep attending this school. I don’t want to see that happen. Yet, I’m a fair grader. What you’ve been showing me is ‘D’ work, so I can’t call it ‘C+’ work.

"You have three options. One: Make a solid attempt to give me your best, sober work so I can give you a decent grade. I’d advise taking this option. Two: I can recommend that you drop - no credit, no grade. Three: Stop attending class - you would receive an incomplete, which would go on your record. I don’t recommend the third option.

You need to make a decision by next class - let me know what you think. I hope you decide to make an attempt to pull a good grade out of this."

No harm, no foul. If the kid decides to ignore your well-meaning advice & fails the class on his own merits, that’s a shame. It’s also a problem of his own making. Sometimes people need to fall on their asses before they get straightened out. I certainly did.

16

As a college student who also smokes pot heavily, my, uh, friend* just wanted to say he agrees with this 100%. Treat the guy like any non-drug-using student who doesn’t participate or show any interest. Really, that’s all most of us potheads want. Don’t give us any special priviledges, but then don’t throw us in jail, either. :slight_smile:
*Damn, I hate having to do that. It’s just silly. But if them’s the rules, them’s the rules.

17

ISTM you should grade him on his work. If appropriate, let him know he might be well advised to drop the class (if that’s the situation), but it’s not really your business WHY his work is poor. Unless the smell is bothering other people in the class, he’s not a kid, and if he screws up because of his own irresponsible behavior, the irresponsible behavior is his business and the screw-up yours. Hope that’s coherent.

18

I found this to be extremely hilarious…and too well hidden. I had to read it twice to make sure I wasn’t implying something:)

It reminds me of a student in one of my college algebra classes. He was a stoner to a massive degree…and he loved math. He would oftentimes steal the professor’s lecture and ramble into the next chapter for which most of us weren’t ready. He was usually, and very obviously, stoned during class. However, he once said to me that “school is so much more interesting when I’m stoned…I love it.”

This gentleman graduated with honors. He is currently a very successful computer programmer with a very lucrative contract with a local software company. Yes, he still smokes pot.

19

KarlGrenze - unfortunately the class is not pass fail eligible, the college reserves that status for electives. And Psych Lit 204 is not an elective. So that is out.

The Peyote Coyote - Letting this kid take his own medicine is the best thing to do, however, from talking to his academic advisor last night, he is not doing well in any other classes except an elective fine arts class.

I have scheduled a meeting with the Dean next week. She (the dean) has seen this student before and agreed to the meeting based on our wont to keep him in school.

The issue of fairness is high on our list, because we do not want to give him any special treatment that another student would not get.

As I have spoken to him before, he knows what the deal is. The most unfortunate aspect of the whole situation is that this is the first time I have has to seriously contemplate the behaviour of a student as related to the future of their college career. College students smoke pot, and for those who think my decision is based on that, it isn’t. My decision is based on his not turning himself around, not stepping up to the plate.

As bjohn13 alligorically said, smoking pot does not mean a student will perform poorly. Infact I have other students in my higher level classes, like Abnormal, and irrational Psych classes that are stoned sometimes, but perform very well.

I am all for expanding ones sensed through spherical thinking, and I have alluded to that in past classes. But plain and simple there are students who can not handle it. Student in question is one of them.

Just so some of you know, my going to the dean and asking for a meeting is no small matter. We have something here, called Student government, not exactly what you are thinking - we call it J-Board. So if a student is found to Plaigarize or some other such offense they go to J-Board and are either put on probation or dismissed by a panel of their peers. The dean over sees all activities of J-Board, and keeps the checks and balences in check. But they can decide what to do with a particular student.

This student will most likely not go to J-Board but very well may get a talking to by the Dean.

I want to make absolutely sure this guy is treated fairly but must maintain some semblance of fairness to other students.

Bottom line is, I don’t care if you smoke a little pot, but do not let it take over your life. And in my humble opinion, Wake and Bake before my class must be had with some respect for me, the instructor. You all have been very helpful. Any other opinions will all be taken into consideration.

20

Phlosphr:

Your last post was done very eloquantly. I can fully see your view on the subject now, and I agree with it 100%.