Another School Shooting [Stoneman Douglas] (2/14/2018)

[Leo_Krupe]

@MyFootsZZZ

What I don’t understand is why Republicans never talk about mental illness. I mean, that is part of the problem… but according to Republicans, that’s the ONLY problem.

I was talking to my daughter about this, and we agreed that the discussion will mention mental health, then stop. If mental health/illness is a part of the problem, then it must be fucking addressed, not just mentioned once and never again.

But it’s too hard to actually do something about it. Or more accurately, it’s too expensive.

[adaher]

@Leo_Krupe

And of course the third most idiotic thing to say when this happens is this.
It’s never time to talk about it. Never.

Personally, I believe it’s always time to talk about it. If you have something concrete to say. “Do something” is not actually more helpful than “thoughts and prayers”. If Democrats have proposals, let’s here them, and more importantly, let’s have this debate in 2018 as part of the campaign.

[Leo_Krupe]

@adaher

Well, I won’t say that schools are safe. People saying after this massacre that schools are supposed to be safe places, I’m not sure where they went to school. But safe from OUTSIDE threats, yes, that should be true.

Schools are relatively safe, if the odds of dying in a school are 1 in 20,000. The National Safety Council lists assault by firearm odds as 1 in 370, but that doesn’t mean school shootings. http://www.nsc.org/learn/safety-knowledge/Pages/injury-facts-chart.aspx

According that chart, dying by exposure to excessive natural heat is 1 in 16,584, which is more likely than the 1 in 20,000 school shooting odds.

[UCBearcats]

When these fucking shit stains are arrested and it is 100% that they did it, they should be immediately stoned to death very very slowly.

[Leo_Krupe]

@adaher

Personally, I believe it’s always time to talk about it. If you have something concrete to say. “Do something” is not actually more helpful than “thoughts and prayers”. If Democrats have proposals, let’s here them, and more importantly, let’s have this debate in 2018 as part of the campaign.

Agreed. However, I’m not prepared at this moment to have a debate (it’s after 11:00 pm in my location, and I’m too tired to continue much longer). But you’re right: just saying, “We have to do something!” is less than productive.

But Democrats have had proposals, and Republicans have shot them down (no pun intended), either by not letting it come to a vote, or by the aforementioned, “It’s not time to talk about it.”

The problem is, it’s just like a conversation I had several years ago with a coworker, when Obama was running for his second term. The coworker said, “I just want what’s best for the country.” A sentiment I think anyone would agree with. The issue is, what is it that’s best for the country?

I’m sure that slaveholders thought their solution was “best for the country,” and we saw how that worked out.

[Monty]

@pool

If
This happened in America, if race is mostly a social construct, calling someone white in America conjures up certain images. The census categories also consider Middle Easterners and North Africans as white, but most Americans probably don’t consider these groups white, you can’t have it both ways, Hispanics usually get lumped in with “persons of color”, you are trying to label him with a social identity he probably doesn’t even self identify with, and you clearly have some axe to grind, the only person whining is you. You are doing the very thing you are preemptively accusing these white bigots of doing, ignoring reality if it doesn’t fit the narrative in your own mind. Why do you feel the need to label him white? Is that what your most important takeaway of this incident is?

Will you at least pretend to try to read what I wrote? I am not labeling the guy as anything. I am pointing out that there are Whites who will refuse to identify him as White because, of course, that would tarnish the lily, er, white image those particular Whites have of their own race.

[anomalous1]

@Gray_Ghost

The casual racism at this place, directed to anyone white and not left-leaning, is increasingly unpleasant to read.

Upvote

[Monty]

@Paul_in_Qatar

“My prayers and condolences to the families of the victims of the terrible Florida shooting. No child, teacher or anyone else should ever feel unsafe in an American school.”
-President Donald J Trump
five hours ago

That’s from Trump? He can sod off. No individual should fear for their life or safety because of bigotry that fool has enabled.

[anomalous1]

@Crafter_Man

There’s not a whole lot that can be done to prevent these things without infringing on inalienable rights. It’s one of the prices we pay for living in a free society.

My vote for best post goes to Crafter_Man. It’s not a reality we all can agree on, but it is the situation put in front of us.

[Biotop]

@adaher

Personally, I believe it’s always time to talk about it. If you have something concrete to say. “Do something” is not actually more helpful than “thoughts and prayers”. If Democrats have proposals, let’s here them, and more importantly, let’s have this debate in 2018 as part of the campaign.

Political campaigns turn reasonable thoughtful discussion into partisan sloganeering and BS. I’d be hard pressed to think of any issue that has benefited from becoming partisan fodder in national campaigns. We need the people we have elected to lead to do their jobs now.

[Monty]

@Clothahump

Arm the teachers. Or at least the administrative staff.

Nope. That’s an incredibly bad idea. Look at the trouble some teachers are getting into now with what can best be described as bad decision making. Do you really want to arm such individuals?

@adaher

Background checks wouldn’t have stopped this school shooting. Or any school shootings.

That’s true. A background check doesn’t show someone’s crimes until they’ve committed a crime.

@Der_Trihs

In this case, it appears the sentiment is that people always thought he might do something like this.

&

@nearwildheaven

In this case, people ARE saying that in his case, they DID see it coming, and the evidence appears to be that his expulsion was due to violence and bringing weapons, including guns, to school.

So you’re fine with the “minority report” or “consensus view” method of determining guilt? How will that work in your ideal world? And how reliable are those who are making that determination anyway? Did the culprit in this case actually bring weapons to school? I’m at an airport waiting on my return flight to Beijing so I haven’t been able to check a lot of news.

@adaher

I agree, but armed security might be in order. With the explosion in highly paid administrators in the public school system over the last couple of decades, you could hire 2-3 armed guards for every administrator you cut. Back when students actually attending school were a big risk in some schools, they actually had security and metal detectors, so we know security is something schools can afford if they really want it.

On the other hand, the odds of your school being attacked by a shooter are something like 1 in 20,000.

Here’s an idea: let’s have armed security, as in an actual police officer, assigned to the school.

@UCBearcats

When these fucking shit stains are arrested and it is 100% that they did it, they should be immediately stoned to death very very slowly.

More blood lust. And, if I may point it out, completely against the constitution, you know, the prohibition on cruel and unusual punishments. One would think that one wants to be better than those one’s condeming.

@anomalous1

Upvote

The post you’re upvoting had jack all to do with what I actually posted. Or did you miss the other posts pointing that out?

[anomalous1]

@Monty

The post you’re upvoting had jack all to do with what I actually posted. Or did you miss the other posts pointing that out?

Relax.

I was expressing that I liked what he said, regardless of, if following the thread. I agree with his statement, in and of itself.

[Rick_Kitchen]

Bess Kalb, writer for Jimmy Kimmel Live, is responding to every politician calling for thoughts and prayers by indicating how much money they received from the NRA.
https://twitter.com/bessbell

[Isamu]

@Crafter_Man

There’s not a whole lot that can be done to prevent these things without infringing on inalienable rights. It’s one of the prices we pay for living in a free society.

It’s one of the prices you pay for being relatively free with regard to guns. Other freedoms that you may of may not have don’t really have anything to do with these sorts of firearm murder sprees.

[wolfpup]

@Crafter_Man

There’s not a whole lot that can be done to prevent these things without infringing on inalienable rights. It’s one of the prices we pay for living in a free society.

So you believe that every civilized democracy on earth isn’t really free? :rolleyes:

Rather strange thinking. And tragically wrong. What every civilized democracy on earth believes is that reasonable gun control is one of the prices we pay for the freedom to not get shot, the freedom to send our kids to school without fear that we may never see them again.

[wolfpup]

Bad link in my post above, and I ran out of edit time. It was a link to a well-done satirical piece in the Onion. The title says it all:
‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

[Morgyn]

@Jacquernagy

I think that a big driving force for more support for the measures necessary to reduce these shootings - whether it’s gun control, more availability of psychiatric care for troubled people, or both - will be the emergence of more video recordings of it. I truly think that if people, including legislators, SEE and HEAR these incidents happening, it will make it more personal for them in a way that just reading about it will not.

Last June, several representatives and senators were fired upon while practicing for the annual Dem/Repub baseball match. The most severely injured, Steve Scalise, has always been a big second amendment proponent (the NRA gives him an “A+” rating) and has not changed his opinion in any way, even though he nearly died. *Nothing *is going to change their minds.

[Starving_Artist]

The problem isn’t guns, it’s the way people are being raised and/or schooled (or not) in today’s culture. This shit wasn’t going on in 1960. There are lessons to be learned from that.

[eschereal]

@Starving_Artist

The problem isn’t guns …

yes, it is

[wolfpup]

@Starving_Artist

The problem isn’t guns, it’s the way people are being raised and/or schooled (or not) in today’s culture. This shit wasn’t going on in 1960. There are lessons to be learned from that.

This shit is not going on now in any other civilized country on earth. There are lessons to be learned from that, too.

Your statement is, in fact, a trifecta of bullshit, wrong on at least three different levels.

First, this “shit” was going on back in those good old days, in many years even worse than today – so much so that in 1969 President Johnson convened a special commission on gun violence. Cite. Proposals were put forward for mandatory licensing and seizures of unlicensed handguns, and once again Congress had an opportunity to stem the carnage, and once again failed to act.

Second, no other country on earth experiences gun violence to such a huge extent and on such a regular basis as the US, even countries where the culture and the family and “upbringing” issues are very similar, and where diagnosing and treating mental health issues poses similar challenges.

Third, many of the mass shootings have no identifiable link to your boogeyman of raising and schooling, and very obviously, none of those things by themselves will fix mental health problems. The Sandy Hook shooter had a loving mother who was financially well off. But so deeply is the gun culture ingrained in American society that she felt that owning guns and shooting at gun clubs would be a good means of bonding and social engagement. Very few people in other countries would think that way, and therein lies a big part of the problem: the underlying gun culture.

You’re completely wrong on every single point.