Another "Simple and Stupid Wiring Question"

Inspired, of course, by UltraVires’s, “Simple and Stupid Wiring Question”.

Please don’t laugh.

Everything in our school is, of course, 3-pronged wiring, the round connector being the ground. Occasionally, teachers will roll their Chromebook carts from one part of of their rooms to another and, unfortunately, forget to unplug them. I found one cart with the ground prong completely broken off but plugged in. Her reasoning was, “It still works”.

So, the question is, since it still carries electricity to the cart, is this a “no harm, no foul” situation, or is it some kind of electrical short waiting to happen? Can I just leave it and forget it, or should I get maintenance to replace the damaged cord?

Get maintenance to replace the damaged cord. The ground prongs are not just for decoration. It probably grounds any exposed metal of the cart. If there was some sort of internal short or something broken, then there could be metal parts of the cart that are now at mains voltage and you only find out the hard way when you go to move the cart.

I suspected as much. Fortunately, I know the most important thing about dealing with electricity: “Ask an electrician.” LOL

The main idea is that any electricity going someplace it shouldn’t in the equipment plugged in through that plug will be routed harmlessly through that pin into ground wiring (and structure such as conduit, plumbing, framing) throughout the building. Going without the pin means that electricity that improperly appears on for example exposed metals in the equipment would be able to go through any person who is also in contact with something grounded or connected to some other voltage, which is dangerous.

In computer equipment, grounds can also be important in reducing or eliminating malfunctions caused by electromagnetic interference.

The official name is “Safety Ground,” for a reason…

The current doesn’t just dissipate on the ground. More specifically, the Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC) provides a low-impedance path back to the electrical panel which causes the breaker to trip quickly and disable the circuit completely. The other option would be through a higher impedance path i.e. the person touching the cart.

Tell me there won’t be a quiz on this. :flushed:

Nobody expects the Electrical Inquizition.

AH!! :rofl:

This gives me an idea. The final exam for certification as an electrician should be to complete a challenging electrical task. If the candidate fails to do it correctly, the circuit is completed back to his seat, and he suffers the ultimate failure.

The movie, “Death Race”, along with your comment inspired this idea.

Electricity flows in a “circle”, or more properly a circuit. DC electricity flows one way around that circle. AC electricity goes back and forth in a sine wave, flipping which way the electricity is flowing 50 or 60 times per second (depending on what part of the world you are in).

In DC circuits, which wire is which matters. In AC, since the electricity is flipping back and forth in direction, there is no “positive” wire and no “negative” wire. So the two wires are effectively interchangeable.

It would be “safest” (intentionally put in quotes) to leave both of the AC wires ungrounded, since that way you could touch either wire by itself and not get shocked, even if you were touching something metal at the same time. And in fact, this is done for things like hospital operating rooms and other locations that are defined as “wet” locations by the National Electric Code. These are called “isolated” systems since they are isolated from the Earth. If you are in a hospital (hopefully just visiting or for something minor), look for the orange outlets. Those are isolated outlets. Not to be confused with red outlets, which are outlets that are on the emergency generators and remain powered even when the hospital’s power goes out.

While isolated systems are safer, they aren’t practical for residential electrical service. Isolated systems in hospitals have to be inspected every year and go through a lot of maintenance and testing to make sure that they stay isolated, and this is all inside the controlled environment of a hospital building. If you try to run an isolated system in the real world, mother nature is going to randomly make ground connections for you. Instead of an isolated system, you’ll end up with a randomly grounded system.

So what we do in the real world is we intentionally ground one of the AC wires. This is done by literally connecting the wire to a copper rod that is pounded into the ground. Your “grounded” wire is now called your “neutral” wire, and the ungrounded wire is the “hot” wire. Now it matters which wire is which, just because of this ground connection.

A grounded system like this is not quite as safe as an isolated system. You can touch the neutral wire and something metal like a water pipe and not get shocked. But if you touch the hot wire and a water pipe, you’ll get shocked. If the system was isolated you wouldn’t get shocked, but maintaining an isolated system in every home isn’t practical, so it’s safer to have one wire intentionally grounded instead of having mother nature randomly ground one of the wires.

For a long time, this was how homes were wired. You only had two pronged outlets, with one of the prongs being the “hot” wire and the other being the “neutral” wire (the wider one is the neutral).

So let’s say you have something that has a metal case, like an oven or a refrigerator, or maybe even an old fashioned metal vacuum cleaner. If the “hot” circuit inside the device accidentally touches the metal case, then if you touch the case and something grounded like a water pipe at the same time, you’ll get shocked (and possibly killed). So that’s bad. So they used to connect the neutral to the case. So now it’s safe, right? If the hot wire has a fault and touches the case, all it does is blows the breaker.

But here is the problem. What if your neutral wire breaks? Now if you turn on the device, the case floats up to 120 volts. This electricity is going through the device so it’s not quite like a direct short circuit to the case, but it’s still potentially deadly if you touch the case and something metal like a water pipe. So that’s bad.

To fix this problem, they started using 3 wires instead of 2. Instead of using the neutral wire as both the electricity return wire and the safety ground at the same time, now the neutral wire only carries the electricity back around the “circle”, and the separate safety ground is used to connect to the metal case to prevent you from getting shocked. The safety ground is the little round prong that we’re talking about in this thread. The safety ground is also connected to Earth ground, at the same point where the neutral wire is grounded.

With this 3 wire system, if the hot wire breaks, then the device stops working. The metal case remains safe to touch. If the hot wire shorts to the case, the device blows the breaker, and the case is still safe to touch. If the neutral wire breaks, the device stops working, and the case is still safe to touch (unlike the 2 wire system). If the neutral wire shorts to the case, the case is still safe to touch. If the safety ground breaks, then as long as you don’t have any other fault, the case is still safe to touch. It requires more than one thing to break for the case to become dangerous to touch, unlike the 2 wire system where just a broken neutral connection can make the case unsafe.

If you break the ground connection off of the plug, then you already have your one fault. Now, all it takes is a single other fault and you can end up being unsafe. Yes, “it still works”, because that’s the beauty of the 3 wire system compared to the 2 wire system. But if you do have another fault now, instead of it remaining safe, now you could potentially kill someone.

If you get it fixed, then no matter what breaks, as long as it’s a single fault, the worst that can happen is the device stops working. If you don’t get it fixed, the worst that can happen if something else breaks is that someone dies a horrible painful death.

As was already mentioned upthread, it’s called the “safety ground” for a reason.

Our chief weapons are fear and surprise. And shocks!

Thanks, FinsToTheLeft, for addressing an (unfortunately) common misconception. A lot of people view grounding conductors as serving a function similar to the overflow on a sink. They believe it is “safely” draining away the current so it won’t hurt us. Properly installed, the grounding circuit should indeed cause the overcurrent protection to activate. Having the frame or enclosure of a piece of equipment energized by a current-carrying conductor of the circuit so the user gets even a mild shock is evidence of a poor or defective installation. In most cases, the grounding conductor or bonding jumper is not of sufficiently low impedance…or it’s disconnected completely. This is very, very bad.

The thing is, in the good old days, your vacuum cleaner or kettle or whatever appliance was made with a metal case and so desperately needed the ground for safety. Nowadays, almost everything not running electricity is either plastic, or a metal frame covered in plastic. Sometimes, ground is irrelevant. You can see this in your typical laptop, where for some - the brick may have a 3-prong plug, but the plug from that into the laptop itself is 2 wires +/-18V DC (or 21V or whatever) Of course, 18V is a lot less lethal than 120V. So in the OP’s case, the brick was at risk of blowing up, but the laptop - less likely. Presumably the odds of 120V finding its way into the 18V lines is heavily engineered against, and unless you pour water on the keyboard, you are unlikely to contact that 120V from a very broken power supply.

But short answer to the OP - as long as nothing malfunctions, you don’t need that 3rd prong. Back in the days (here in Canada) where it was just as likely to find a 2-holer outlet as 3-holer, I saw a lot of devices where the ground prong had been cut off. That’s perfectly fine - until you need that grounding.

I still have an adapter (used to be common) that was 3-to-2. It also had a green wire which should be screwed under the metal screw in the middle of the cover plate, on the theory this was grounded via the metal box.

I had a house built in 1962 with all 2-hole outlets. With father-in-law’s help, we changed most of the outlets carefully without turning off the power (only blew up one) . Although they were 2-hole sockets, all the wiring included the third ground wire, which was connected to the metal outlet box.

Friend of mine in same subdivision owned a house - the tenant started an electrical fire. The firemen came and turned off the main breaker. Then he went to look at his house and got a shock (literally!). Turns out the builders were sloppy, the neutral and live feed lines were reversed connected at the panel. Turning off the main breaker did not kill the power because it just disconnected neutral to the panel, not the live. Over about 20 years, nobody noticed - except the one time his brother tried to fix an exterior outlet, and even though the circuit breaker was off, still got a huge spark that melted a bite out of his knife. They should have investigated further back then.

Don’t futz around with electricity.

Negligent, not sloppy. I’m a well informed home owner, not an electrician, but I would never make this mistake. I bet you they hired someone’s brother-in-law to do this.

OK, I don’t get this part. I’ve never heard that the path back to the electrical panel, itself, trips anything. If you’re referring to Ground Fault Interruption, that’s from measuring the common mode current flowing in the same direction through the hot and neutral lines, based usually on a bifilar wound transformer. GFI is a great and, I think, necessary mechanism to shut down a circuit if there is electrocution level current leaking out of the intended circuit somewhere.

Are you saying that the point of it is the impedance from hot to neutral will be low enough to draw sufficient current to trip the breaker? That’s only correct if the fault path, which is a random and inadvertent thing, is low enough impedance – and it may or may not be. The current to electrocute somebody is in the neighborhood of 1/10 amp, so there is a wide range of fault path impedances that could cause electrocution without tripping a breaker.

If you’re saying that a good strong connection between the hot wire and the ground wire will trip the breaker, that part’s true.

An outstanding explanation, and I thank you for your effort. :slight_smile:
Confession: I had to read it 3 times. LOL

Let’s go back to what @engineer_comp_geek

Imagine on a blender with a metal case the power cable goes through a plastic grommet into the case. Inside the case, the insulation is stripped off the cable and three insulated wires - hot, neutral, ground - are run to the power switch (then to the motor), the motor, and the case respectively.

After many years of tugging on the power cord, the grommet pops out and the hot wire rubs on the rough metal opening and ends up contacting the case. We now have a dead short of as close to 0 ohms as possible and the current runs from the hot, to the case, to the ground, and back to the electrical panel completing the circuit. The breaker sees a momentary high current and trips the breaker. The fault path is NOT random and inadvertent since we purposely bonded the case to ground.

If the EGC was not there, the case would be at 120V in respect to neutral and nothing would happen. When the user touches the blender and let’s say the sink faucet at the same time, we’ve now got some random fault path through a big human 1000 Ohm resistor in the circuit and .12A of current flows from one arm to the other with your heart in the middle of the current flow. There is not enough current for the breaker to trip. That’s a Bad Thing.

Let’s say that we are in a damp, salty area. Some current leakage between hot and the ungrounded case puts a 300 ohm bridge and the device leaks .25A of current which is not enough to trip the breaker but can still cause a shock. This is where a GFI comes in.

A GFI is just a vastly superior monitoring device that can sense the difference between the current flow on neutral and hot and can trip as low as 5mA.

The reality is that if the GFI was invented earlier it would obviate the need for an EGC in most cases, that’s why the CEC and NEC permit using a GFI as an alternative to a properly grounded circuit. The only real need for a EGC when a GFI is used is for a surge suppressor which shunts electrical spikes to ground.

This is all true (in theory), but in practice, there have been a number of fatalities caused by phone chargers that were shoddily made:

This was one of those crap Chinese-made Mains-to-USB chargers that can be purchased for as little as US$1.50.

I’ve taken them apart, and they are bad, criminally bad. The isolation from mains to output is not taken seriously- not enough creepage distance, and in one of the samples I examined, there was debris inside that could cause a direct short if you shook the charger just right.

She could have been touching the earphone plug while unplugging or plugging the earphones into the phone, and perhaps a grounded Ethernet port on an otherwise plastic computer. Once you’re connected to the mains, any grounded bit of metal can be lethal. Perhaps the computer was metal and grounded… most laptops these days have a grounded chassis so either the metal, trim, an exposed screw or anything like that would suffice. Whatever the current path, the muscle contractions probably caused her to grip the conductive bits more tightly rather than flinging them away, and sealed her fate.

From here:

But, there are a lot of these reports.

And this is where a GFI would have saved the user and this is why code requires them in pretty much any area of the house at risk for a path to ground - kitchens and baths with water pipes, garages, basements, and outdoors with damp ground.

The best explanation is probably with an example.

Let’s say you live in an old house, and the wiring that’s behind the walls does not have a ground wire - just hot and neutral.

There is an old, outdoor, 120 VAC receptacle. The receptacle is “two-prong” (just hot and neutral prongs) and you want to replace it with a modern “three-prong” (hot, neutral, ground) receptacle. So you replace the receptacle with a regular three-prong receptacle. But now you have a problem: there is nothing connected to the receptacle’s ground terminal. To fix this problem, you drive a long (8 foot), copper rod into the ground next to the receptacle, and then you connect a wire between the rod and the receptacle’s ground prong.

It’s all good, right?

No.

It’s true the receptacle’s ground prong is now grounded. But if you plug something into the receptacle that has a ground fault (e.g. short between hot and ground), the circuit breaker in the panel will not trip. Why? Because the earth has too much resistance; there’s too much resistance between the rod you pounded into the ground and the rod that is in the ground near the circuit breaker panel.

So simply connecting a receptacle’s ground prong to earth ground is not allowed - there must be a low-impedance (copper) connection between the receptacle’s ground prong and the neutral/ground bus bar inside the circuit breaker panel. This connection will guarantee the circuit breaker trips if there’s a ground fault.

So the proper fix is to run a copper ground wire between the receptacle’s ground prong and the neutral/ground bus bar inside the circuit breaker panel. This can be a pain in the butt, obviously. So there is a loophole in the NEC: don’t worry about running a ground wire, and simply protect the (ungrounded, three-prong) receptacle with a GFCI. The GFCI can be a GFCI circuit breaker, or the receptacle itself can be a GFCI receptacle.