Another "Things most people know about history... that are wrong" thread

This reminds me of a wrong thing that even many historians “know” about the American Revolution:

“American militia were unreliable in a set piece battle with the British, as they tended to panic in the face of British arms and run away.”

Well no, not exactly. The problem with the militia was their armament. They were armed with hunting rifles, which, though more accurate than the muskets carried by soldiers, had a significant disadvantage in battle: they took a long time to load. So the riflemen would fire their rounds, and then the British would respond with a bayonet charge. Often, before the riflemen had time to reload, the British would be upon them with their bayonets. Under those circumstances, “running away” was the only option if you wanted to live.

Daniel Morgan figured out a way around this problem in the battle of Cowpens. He put the militia out front, with a lot of open ground in front of them (meaning it would take the British some time to reach them). There, the militiamen were instructed to stand firm long enough to fire two rounds, and then were to fall back behind the regulars. When they fell back, the charging British misinterpreted this as a panicked retreat and ran after them, breaking formation in the process and running headlong into the American regulars-- who were ready and waiting with their muskets. And now, safely behind the regulars, the riflemen reloaded for another volley.

Result: American victory.

So the problem with militia was not that they were any more predisposed to panic than regular troops, but rather that they were frequently misused by their officers given the limitations of their weaponry.

I can’t provide a cite (because I haven’t looked for one), but I seem to remember reading that bayonets killed more people in the Revolution than musket balls. I’m positive they did at many battles, because in addition to the time it takes to reload there’s the fact that it’s very difficult to fire a musket in damp weather.

Aside, but interesting (if only to me): One of my ancestors was a CSA cavalry private at the Battle of Liberty Gap in the Civil War. His regiment was absolutely blown to hell and back- they lost half their number to casualty or capture- because the Union attacked during a heavy rainstorm. It was the first battlefield use of Spencer carbine repeating rifles because the Union officer in charge had the brilliance to deduce that the same function which let them fire bullets repeatedly (the metal shells) also allowed them to fire in wet weather. The Confederates could not return fire since their powder became wet after the first volleys, and the result was a fast and totally unqualified Union victory.

Didn’t the French navy help some? I thought that’s why they call them “freedom fries.”

Two more related misconceptions.

It wasn’t the Russian winter that really hurt the German Amry. It was the Russian autumn rains that turned the terrain into impassable lakes of mud. The German Army was waiting for the winter so the ground would freeze up and they could advance again.

The other big misconception was that Stalingrad was a huge victory for the Soviets. They obviously won the battle. But their plan hadn’t been just to cut off the German Sixth Army at Stalingrad; they had planned on cutting off the entire German southern front. They also succeeded but the Germans were able to hold a gap open long enough to pull out most of their forces. From the Soviet point of view, 90% of the Axis troops they had hoped to eliminate were able to get away.

I am so there

Speaking of teetotalers let’s talk about Bartholomew Roberts a.k.a. the pirate Black Bart Roberts who sailed in the first quarter of the 18th century. A lot of documentaries refer to him as a teetotaler who refused to touch alcohol but there’s not real evidence of this. The man certainly wasn’t a drunkard and appeared to dislike it when his men were drunk but that’s not the same as being a teetotaler.

Marc

The Patriotes Revolt of 1837-38 were not an attempt to throw English speakers out of either Lower Canada or its government. Several of the Patriote leaders, such as Thomas Brown, Robert Nelson, and Wolfred Nelson, were English-speaking.

Most people “know” we landed on the…no I can’t even type it with a straight face.

You could try typing it with your fingers instead.

Charles Lindbergh was not the first person to fly across the Atlantic ocean. 81 people crossed before he did, the first being Alcock and Brown eight years previously. Lindbergh was just the first to fly solo across the Altantic.

I’m not sure what you mean by this. Declarations of war between the US and Germany were mutual in WWII.

Congress passed this atypically concise joint resolution on Dec. 11, 1941:

“Maid, if thy lord say to thee, behold this my manroot, I say it ith half a cubit”, say not unto him, “Nay my lord, it is but a palm, perhaps two palms, but I think more like a palm and then three fingers, or else two fingers and a palm”, but say to him, aye my lord, half a cubit be ith at least, and then mayhap a finger yet or two finger on top that cubit", and thy lord will be pleased and thy marriage blessed. Else will his manroot know only a palm, aye, perhaps two palms, each day, til he be spent, and thy last days on Earth shall be filled with ruined bedclothes and no progeny.

Pilgrim Maid Tip For Thys Day: Use not the grease of porcupine, neither of the swine, as loob, lest a rash may ye haveth, but pay thee the extra thruppence for the whale based lloobrykant, minding thee the rhyme, ‘A little swine makes a forest of brine/though thick and through the thin, the oyle of the Orca doth see it yn’. All half a cubit thereof my lord."

Ah, another one: many people know that the British burned the White House and the Capitol in 1814. This is true, but not the whole story: It was British subjects who burned the buildings, but many of the actual troops were not English but northern Irish and Canadians (who were of course British citizens) and the burning of the government buildings during the raid (they British knew they were too few to take the city- it was a surgical strike) was more personal than act of war. It was in large part revenge for the sack of York, Canada the previous year and the burning by Americans of the Upper Canada Parliament and other government buildings there.


On a related subject, I’ve read in books on libraries and short bios of Thomas Jefferson and even heard from tour guides at Monticello that Jefferson donated the bulk of his personal library to replace the library of Congress (then housed in the capitol) that was destroyed by the British. This is BS. Jefferson sold his library to Congress following an impassioned sales pitch for just under 25,000; while it's very difficult to make a comparison of 1815 to today’s $, it’s safe to say that $25,000 then would make a huge dent in $1 million today. Jefferson’s reason for doing this, aside from the “there is in fact no subject to which a member of Congress may not have occasion to refer” reason he gave (which, in fairness, was true and he probably did believe), was because he desperately needed the money as he was sinking fast financially.


I’ll count this as opinion rather than factual error since I still see the argument both ways: An opinion of my own that I’ve recently reversed: I always thought of John Brown as a homicidal crazed fanatic. Having read a lot of primary source biographies of him lately, I’ve reversed my opinion of him. I now think he was probably less of a religious nut/general psychotic than a sincere abolitionist who, though overly zealous, really and truly saw himself as a freedom fighter in the tradition of Washington (whose sword he stole and swung during his raid) and Spartacus and Wat Tyler. The main reason for my reversal of opinion is learning that he himself had very little delusion of his raid succeeding- he almost didn’t care- but rather hoped it would spark the fire that would lead to a massive uprising by example. He was probably more sane than, say, Timothy McVeigh or most militia freaks of today, and certainly incomparably more sane than Eric Rudolph or Charles Manson. (I still think it’s funny how so many of the Transcendentalists [a group whose poetry I often love but whose leaders strike me as the grandstanding Sean Penn Limousin Liberals of their day] hired lawyers who were actually moles whose purpose was to find out if he had the letters they’d sent him and, if so, to seize and return or destroy them.)

One of the most irksome that I’ve heard and I’ve heard it many many times including from college professors-

“Oh, during the Middle Ages/on the American Frontier/back in 1900/etc., if you lived to be 50 you were considered old. You probably had grandchildren and no teeth and were seen as near miraculous.”

and closely related

“So many women died in childbirth that the average man might have 5 or 6 wives over his life” or “childbirth was the big killer of women”.

I seriously knew the part about life expectancies and 50 being old was incorrect when I was a kid, because you can look at the dates of the famous people and know better- Eleanor of Aquitaine had 11 kids and lived to be 82, Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson and James Madison and Aaron Burr and many others lived into their 80s and John Adams broke 90. They were regarded as old during their times but not as “omg it must be voodoo!” old like a 120 year old would be today. The truth is that a 50 year old was probably a bit ‘older’ in biological age then than now due to the lack of heart medication/prostate screenings/BP meds/etc., than now, but this was at least in part offset by the fact they had far more active lifestyles and nowhere near as much processed junk and fat in their diets.
In some ways 50 was probably at least regarded as younger than now. For one thing, because if you look at censuses or the bios of famous men you’ll see that, in that age before birth control and where large families were the norm and wives tended to be younger by several years than their husbands, many if not most were still having kids at that age or else had small children at home- far more percentage-wise than have them now (when most men stop having kids in their 30s), thus far more children grew up with parents who were 60 or more before the youngest kids left home.

As for women dying in childbirth, it’s true that childbirth was the leading killer of women between the ages of 15-45, but I’m guessing that it’s probably still on the short list. The vast majority of women, however, did NOT die in childbirth even though any village could probably show you several women who had borne a dozen or more children. Death of babies in childbirth was a lot more common then than now (about 1:13 in colonial New England) and deaths in infancy/early childhood were a lot more common (about 1:8 in colonial New England), but the deaths of women in childbirth, while certainly a lot more common than now, were not as frequent as a lot of movies and novels may imply.

On average, life expectancies for both men and women once they reached adulthood were only a few years shorter than now. In New England, a 30 year old could usually expect to see 62, which is a lot younger than today’s life expectancies to be sure, but that’s average, meaning that a lot of people lived to be much older. A 90 year old was not that unusual in a village of the 17th century.

Unless they were slaves: very few slaves made it to great age and tended to die much younger than their free counterparts. Many theories are suggested- overwork of course being a large one as well as cramped quarters with communal cess pools being perfect breeding grounds for disease- but diet was probably just as important. Blacks in general are more susceptible to heart disease/diabetes/sugar problems, and when you add to this that lard was a staple of everyone’s diet in some areas but for no one more than the slaves (it was cheap, it made bland food taste better, and it is pure fat and cholesterol) plus lots of starch (rice is cheap and most southern counties produced it by the ton up until the Civil War [even counties you don’t think of as rice producing areas]).

Interesting reading on Plimoth Plantation and New England life expectancies and childbirth deaths can be found hyeah.


The history channel has told me the “really evil leader executed political enemies and mailed their families a bill for the cost of the bullet” story about Mao Zedong, Hitler, Saddam Hussein, and Pol Pot. I almost expect to hear it in any random documentary about the badguys now.

Is there seriously not enough true evil things to talk about that you have to invent crap like that?

I wonder if they recited Ezekiel 25:17 when they shot them.

I don’t know it’s truth value, but the story about Saddam Hussein’s brutality that I’ve probably heard the most is his assurance to one man that if he came in for questioning then he’d return him to his family that night. He returned him in several suitcases. There’s also the very true “he had a prison for children” story.

A story about King John of England is that his second wife, Isabella, little more than a child when he married her, would not consummate the marriage and he had granted her permission to wait until she felt it was right. When he learned she was having an affair (before she ever shared his own bed) he confronted her, forgave, and told her that so great was his understanding of her plight as a young girl married to a middle aged man that tonight he would personally see that her lover was in her bed. You can follow the jist if not the details- when she drew back her curtain the lover was hanging. Probably apocryphal, but still a “cold blooded shit” story. (It’s a matter of historical record that he auctioned off his first wife, Avisa, along with several other heiresses, after their divorce.)

Speaking of John, the Magna Charta is widely known as a major document in the history of freedom from tyranny. Few know that the Pope, John’s liege and lord (he’d essentially knelt in fealty to the Pope to gain clemency at one point) had the document annulled and ordered the nobles who forced its signings to explain themselves to him and apologize to John.

I was taught that that was what tripped him up. When all these other captured Mexican soldiers started standing at attention near him and even saluting, the Texans took a closer look at him.

Bwuh? :confused:

Sampiro writes:

> Anyway, Loewens struck me as a self impressed git who’d be genuinely
> disappointed if a freshman student actually did know something about the
> history or prehistory of the Americas.

You’re being unfair to Loewen. You’re better read in American history than most people and less likely to believe some of the false information that he writes about. I think that his books are reasonably good but need to be read skeptically just like anything else. Yes, he’s self-impressed and makes occasional mistakes. The same is true of some pretty good posters here, including you.

“Columbus/Copernicus/someone in post-classical Europe discovered that the world was round.” I’ve gotten in a lot of arguments about this one.

Scientists knew the world was round since Antiquity. Erastothenes, for example, in the third century BCE, measured the circumference of the Earth using shadows cast by the sun in separate locations and came up with an answer that had an error no greater than 16%, and possibly less than 1%, of the true value.

Eratosthenes, I mean.

Historically, it can be proven that it’s always a bad idea to correct a History professor, no matter what moldy chestnuts he’s dispensing (Art History professors are even worse for this). If the student complains of the error, or of being humilited in front of the class after correcting the professor, the department head will favor the professor on the grounds that “colorful stories” are required to keep the course-requirement students awake.

Then there’s the the back-and-forth revisionsim: First people were told that the Germans marched around with Belgian babies on their bayonets in 1914, then we’re told that was all propaganda, then it emerges that they did shoot hostages incuding teenage boys in retaliation for irregular warfare. Then we’re told “well, why should we have felt so bad for the Belgians after what happened in the Belgian Congo?”